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Old 10-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
It would have been the exact same thing if he'd tried to brawl, and then people would have complained about how it was against common sense to brawl with a sniper like Anderson.

Fact is Anderson is just miles above Bonnar, Bonnar never stood a snowball's chance in hell no matter what the promos made you believe. And really everyone's minds knew this, even if their hearts didn't.

No shame in that though, he gave a good fight and stepped up at least, and a great night of fights in general.
Anyone can get knocked out by a punch, Bonnar could have done it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:31 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
Anyone can get knocked out by a punch, Bonnar could have done it.
But he didn't and neither did the 40 odd elite fighters before him. On the contrary, silva has been taken down and pounded or submitted multiple times, so at least what bonnar tried was smart.

They say there is a chance you can jump out of a plane at 30000 feet without a parachute and survive. Happened once to a guy, both parachutes failed, hit the ground smack and still survived without any permanent damage.

Lets start a jump from a cliff train!
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
But he didn't and neither did the 40 odd elite fighters before him. On the contrary, silva has been taken down and pounded or submitted multiple times, so at least what bonnar tried was smart.

They say there is a chance you can jump out of a plane at 30000 feet without a parachute and survive. Happened once to a guy, both parachutes failed, hit the ground smack and still survived without any permanent damage.

Lets start a jump from a cliff train!
But Bonnar, and everyone else, knew that a match of grappling skills wouldnt bode well for him, and it didnt.

Your analogy is stupid. Let me correct it. Bonnar was on a plane that is ready to crash. Grappling is like staying on the plane, which is almost certain death (losing). Standing and scrapping and looking for a flash KO is like jumping out, and hoping you hit a small pond or something.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:02 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
But Bonnar, and everyone else, knew that a match of grappling skills wouldnt bode well for him, and it didnt.

Your analogy is stupid. Let me correct it. Bonnar was on a plane that is ready to crash. Grappling is like staying on the plane, which is almost certain death (losing). Standing and scrapping and looking for a flash KO is like jumping out, and hoping you hit a small pond or something.
How did everyone know? Nice try trying to pawn off your opinion as some sort of unanimous gospel. And obviously BONNAR was the last person that "knew" this supposed truth of yours, because of what he attempted in octagon. Completely idiotic statement.

I was convinced Bonnar would lose either way, but his grappling creds at least match up way better than his striking creds.

Your analogy is far stupider. Staying on the plane while trying to steer a crash landing is a much better option, considering the chances are far higher. In this case the plane happened to be flying over freaking Mordor (i.e. best striker in the history of combat sports) and there wasn't a patch of water in sight.

There was still a chance of crash landing at least (grappling and hoping for a miracle sub / smothering victory), at least 3 people have accomplished that in the past and another has come very close. Who is stupider? The free falling jumper or the pilots that have been trained for years to try for crash landings with occasional success?
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:19 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
How did everyone know? Nice try trying to pawn off your opinion as some sort of unanimous gospel. And obviously BONNAR was the last person that "knew" this supposed truth of yours, because of what he attempted in octagon. Completely idiotic statement.

I was convinced Bonnar would lose either way, but his grappling creds at least match up way better than his striking creds.

Your analogy is far stupider. Staying on the plane while trying to steer a crash landing is a much better option, considering the chances are far higher. In this case the plane happened to be flying over freaking Mordor (i.e. best striker in the history of combat sports) and there wasn't a patch of water in sight.

There was still a chance of crash landing at least (grappling and hoping for a miracle sub / smothering victory), at least 3 people have accomplished that in the past and another has come very close. Who is stupider? The free falling jumper or the pilots that have been trained for years to try for crash landings with occasional success?
How can it 'supposedly' be true if it happened? I said before the fight that he shouldnt grapple because Anderson will be able to stay standing easily and beat him down in the striking. What happened? Anderson was able to stay standing and beat him down in the striking. I mean, you cant argue with my prediction if that's what happened.

The only area where Bonnar is better than Anderson is brawling. Anderson is a martial artist before he is a fighter, and he's never been dragged into a scrappy war. If Bonnar could have got him there, we'd either see a new element to Silva's game or a Bonnar win.

You think steering a plane is easier? And there is always a patch of water in sight in the analogy. Anybody can knock out any body at any time.

Wait, Bonnar is a pilot? Damn, never knew that. In the analogy, Bonnar is a passenger. If he's a pilot then obviously he'll just fly to safety. You have now confused and effectivley ruined the analogy. I hope you're proud of youself!
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:36 AM   #66 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
How can it 'supposedly' be true if it happened? I said before the fight that he shouldnt grapple because Anderson will be able to stay standing easily and beat him down in the striking. What happened? Anderson was able to stay standing and beat him down in the striking. I mean, you cant argue with my prediction if that's what happened.

The only area where Bonnar is better than Anderson is brawling. Anderson is a martial artist before he is a fighter, and he's never been dragged into a scrappy war. If Bonnar could have got him there, we'd either see a new element to Silva's game or a Bonnar win.

You think steering a plane is easier? And there is always a patch of water in sight in the analogy. Anybody can knock out any body at any time.

Wait, Bonnar is a pilot? Damn, never knew that. In the analogy, Bonnar is a passenger. If he's a pilot then obviously he'll just fly to safety. You have now confused and effectivley ruined the analogy. I hope you're proud of youself!
Oh wow you predicted Anderson would keep it standing and KO the hell out of a mid-tier like Bonnar, you should apply for your psychic license Nostradamus.

Everyone knew most likely Bonnar would lose. Everyone knew most likely he'd lose badly if he tried to stand. Everyone knew he'd most likely lose badly if he tried to grapple. That's not a prediction genius, that's obvious. This is Anderson Silva we're talking about!

What's not obvious is that brawling would somehow be better than grappling as you suggest. History indicates that it isn't, it's much worse and based on current fight statistics on Anderson has oh say ... 0% chance of succeeding. As compared to grappling with him, which has an almost 10% success rate.

Anderson's never been dragged into a scrappy war you say? Forrest and Leben tried and they looked like morons for their trouble. Bonnar would have tried and looked worse. The same Forrest that beat your amazing brawler at brawling. Bonnar's brawling intentions would mean squat, Anderson would just have thrown that knee in the first 10 secs, and probably clowned his slow brawling in the 9 secs leading up to it. It's not like he didn't just STAND AGAINST THE CAGE WITH HIS HANDS DOWN AND LET BONNAR BRAWL anyway now did he?

Of course Bonnar's the pilot in the analogy, he's a trained fighter (like a trained pilot?) in a bad situation (engine failure / unbeatable opponent etc.). The best he can do is take the smart path and use the best area of his training in this bad spot, which has shown statistical success in the past (landing a plane with a bad engine / grappling with a guy who has been submitted etc.), rather than throw it all out the window and "get psycho" because some farmer hick on the ground wants to see a guy go *SPLAT* and possibly make it alive. When in the past all that's ever happened with that approach is the splat part.

My apologies for not tailoring my analogy for lower IQs though, how inconsiderate of me.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:48 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Oh wow you predicted Anderson would keep it standing and KO the hell out of a mid-tier like Bonnar, you should apply for your psychic license Nostradamus.

No, I said he shouldnt grapple, which you are protesting, even though it was already proved to have disasterous results, so...I mean...how can you be right?

Everyone knew most likely Bonnar would lose. Everyone knew most likely he'd lose badly if he tried to stand. Everyone knew he'd most likely lose badly if he tried to grapple. That's not a prediction genius, that's obvious. This is Anderson Silva we're talking about!

What's not obvious is that brawling would somehow be better than grappling as you suggest. History indicates that it isn't, it's much worse and based on current fight statistics on Anderson has oh say ... 0% chance of succeeding. As compared to grappling with him, which has an almost 10% success rate.

Grappling had close to zero chance of being effective. It's a match of skills, where Anderson is greater. Brawling doesnt have a skillset, and anyone can get KOed by an unexpected punch.

Anderson's never been dragged into a scrappy war you say? Forrest and Leben tried and they looked like morons for their trouble. Bonnar would have tried and looked worse. The same Forrest that beat your amazing brawler at brawling. Bonnar's brawling intentions would mean squat, Anderson would just have thrown that knee in the first 10 secs, and probably clowned his slow brawling in the 9 secs leading up to it. It's not like he didn't just STAND AGAINST THE CAGE WITH HIS HANDS DOWN AND LET BONNAR BRAWL anyway now did he?

Forrest refused to throw punches at Anderson when baited, so he obviously didnt want a war. Bonnar did look far worse. He didnt come forward and keep his "warrior scrapper" title like Leben did. He tried to grapple and got made a fool of for his troubles. Anderson wouldnt have thrown the knee because Anderson was trying to clown him because of the grappling. Anderson would have faught at range and broke him to pieces, but Bonnar tried to make it a nasty and clinchy fight so Anderson thought "Fine then, if thats how you want it to be...". Bonnar didnt brawl him against the cage, He stood at a stupid distance because he was scared to throw. Anderson forced him to throw, but expected every shot. If Bonnar had just been in a kill or be killed attitude, theres a slightly higher chance he would have landed a hail mary shot.

Of course Bonnar's the pilot in the analogy, he's a trained fighter (like a trained pilot?) in a bad situation (engine failure / unbeatable opponent etc.). The best he can do is take the smart path and use the best area of his training in this bad spot, which has shown statistical success in the past (landing a plane with a bad engine etc.), rather than throw it all out the window and "get psycho" because some farmer hick on the ground wants to see a guy go *SPLAT* and possibly make it alive. When in the past all that's ever happened with that approach is the splat part.

Pilots dictate where the plane is going to be. I wouldnt consider Bonnar anything close to a pilot in a grappling fight with Anderson.

My apologies for not tailoring my analogy for lower IQs though, how inconsiderate of me.

For a guy on an MMA forum, you're so passive aggressive. You always throw a gay little ending line when disucssing something with someone. How about you just get your point across and not debate like a teenage girl?
^All of this.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:59 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Ok you two calm it down. How did such an awesome thread turn into such a mess?

We'll have an end to this silly bickering now please.
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:03 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Ok you two calm it down. How did such an awesome thread turn into such a mess?
Bonnar lost...
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Old 10-16-2012, 10:28 AM   #70 (permalink)
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^All of this.
Fine since see relative restraint as gay, i'll be direct, you're a blathering idiot without any mma knowledge or any point in that tldr garbage you just wrote, Enjoy your crashed train, i'm out.

Sorry killz last one, he started it.
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