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UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

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Old 09-29-2012, 04:49 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz View Post
The way this started was me and Toxic discussing if it was a good idea for GSP to move up to the catchweight to fight Silva. What do you guys think?
Its hard to say.

From GSP's perspective, of course there are benefits and harms of moving up to fight Silva.

By moving up to fight Silva, he stands a chance of snatching the GOAT status from Silva. I believe that the aim of every fighter is to become the best of all time. If GSP gets past Condit, it probably is the best time for him to fight Silva. GSP is in the prime of his career, while Silva might be starting to go downhill ( although he still wins in darn spectacular fashion ). A win over Silva would be amazing for GSP's career. He beat the man much larger than himself, the man who dominated middleweights and some light heavyweights. He would be an even bigger PPV draw than he already is. His salary would shoot through the roof, and there would be some major sponsors looking for him.

Furthermore, if he loses, many would brush it off saying he is just too small for Silva, or he lost to the best there ever was. Really a win-win situation for GSP. If he wins, he is quite clearly the best of all time. If he loses...well there ain't no shame in losing to Anderson Silva. GSP could just move back to welterweight and dominate, or wait for Silva to retire so he can rule the middleweight division. I believe people would respect GSP more if he seeks to challenge himself and fight Anderson Silva instead of getting decision wins over welterweights that are quite clearly below him in terms of skill.

However, although GSP has nothing to lose in terms of legacy, money wise it is a different matter. It would be harder for GSP to ask for a better contract should he lose a fight against Anderson Silva. Also, less sponsors would be interested in GSP. They would much rather flock to the guy that won, Anderson Silva. He might also lose some fair-weather fans.

As for UFC, I don't think it is really wise for them to put up the fight. You have a dominant welterweight champion and dominant middleweight champion that are two of the biggest draws in the company. You put them against each other and one of them is definitely going to be less of a draw. If GSP loses, you can't really promote him as the GOAT after Silva retires. Silva might retire after winning GSP, and what good would it do for the business? If Silva loses, it kind of devalues the middleweight title. Your middleweight champion who absolutely ruled the division lost to a...welterweight. That is of course if the bout happens at catchweight. If GSP moves up to middleweight permanently then it would be fine.

Fans want to see the fight, yes. UFC would appease all the hardcore fans if the fight happened. However, I don't think UFC would have any less PPV buyers if the fight DIDN'T happen. They would get to earn big numbers for...one PPV. After that, if Silva retires after winning, you have one of your top draws retire while another top draw loses some fans for losing. Just not a wise business decision for the UFC.

Of course, I'm not a businessman so I might not be entirely right.

Silva would dominate GSP.

Edit: 5a.m here, mind not really functioning right yet...might comment more later on.
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Damm, lost the live event. We should have the staff (or a regular member) creating a topic kinda like "UFC EVENT STARTS IN X HOURS" the day of the events... but not sticky cause i don't pay too much attention to those. :P
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Catchweight is a bit of a cop out for both of them. Titles need to be on the line!
Not really.

Anderson really doesn't have anything left, since he and Jones won't fight maybe a fight with Bisping but I don't think Bisping has a chance against Anderson and GSP still has work to do with Condit, Diaz, Hendricks, Kampmann, and potentially Marquardt once Strikeforce finally dies at 170 and would be a small Middleweight.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Kind of disappointed Stipe lost to Struve.

What do you all think of Struve and his career prospects?

His chin is real awful. He is able to take some normal shots, but one haymaker and he goes tumbling down. He is only 24 but he has taken so much damage in his fights. I'm afraid he will go down Liddell's path, except at the age of 25~27. Iirc he seems to get rocked in most of his fights, and he got knocked out by Browne, Nelson, and JDS. Granted these guys are real heavy hitters, but so are most of the guys in the heavyweight division. He ain't able to absorb huge punches, his striking defense is abysmal, and he doesn't possess much power himself. Makes for a bad combination...doesn't it? The only thing he has going for him in the striking department is his reach, and he doesn't utilise it very well either. He did show some improvement in using his reach against Stipe, but I'm afraid his chin will be gone by the time he fully understands how to use his reach.

In most of his fights, if the striking doesn't go well for him, he is able to take it to the ground and finish his opponents. If he is winning in the striking department, most of his opponents do not want to take it to the ground due to fear of his BJJ, such as in the fight against Miocic. However, I believe his BJJ is vastly overrated. Which high level BJJ guy has he submitted? Or even a decent BJJ fighter...? Lavar Johnson and Pat Barry ain't exactly known for their submission defense. He would get absolutely demolished by the likes of Bigfoot, Mir, and Werdum. Any fighter with good hands and takedown defense is going to KO Struve ( e.g JDS, Cain, Overeem, Carwin ).

I'd like to see Struve vs Big Nog or Struve vs Mir just to gauge how good he really is. I think he gets KTFO in both fights. I just feel he would make a decent gatekeeper at best. He is like the Mark Munoz of the heavyweight division. Pulls off impressive wins against B level fighters, but loses in devastating fashion against the elite.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:45 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OHKO View Post
Its hard to say.

From GSP's perspective, of course there are benefits and harms of moving up to fight Silva.

By moving up to fight Silva, he stands a chance of snatching the GOAT status from Silva. I believe that the aim of every fighter is to become the best of all time. If GSP gets past Condit, it probably is the best time for him to fight Silva. GSP is in the prime of his career, while Silva might be starting to go downhill ( although he still wins in darn spectacular fashion ). A win over Silva would be amazing for GSP's career. He beat the man much larger than himself, the man who dominated middleweights and some light heavyweights. He would be an even bigger PPV draw than he already is. His salary would shoot through the roof, and there would be some major sponsors looking for him.

Furthermore, if he loses, many would brush it off saying he is just too small for Silva, or he lost to the best there ever was. Really a win-win situation for GSP. If he wins, he is quite clearly the best of all time. If he loses...well there ain't no shame in losing to Anderson Silva. GSP could just move back to welterweight and dominate, or wait for Silva to retire so he can rule the middleweight division. I believe people would respect GSP more if he seeks to challenge himself and fight Anderson Silva instead of getting decision wins over welterweights that are quite clearly below him in terms of skill.

However, although GSP has nothing to lose in terms of legacy, money wise it is a different matter. It would be harder for GSP to ask for a better contract should he lose a fight against Anderson Silva. Also, less sponsors would be interested in GSP. They would much rather flock to the guy that won, Anderson Silva. He might also lose some fair-weather fans.

As for UFC, I don't think it is really wise for them to put up the fight. You have a dominant welterweight champion and dominant middleweight champion that are two of the biggest draws in the company. You put them against each other and one of them is definitely going to be less of a draw. If GSP loses, you can't really promote him as the GOAT after Silva retires. Silva might retire after winning GSP, and what good would it do for the business? If Silva loses, it kind of devalues the middleweight title. Your middleweight champion who absolutely ruled the division lost to a...welterweight. That is of course if the bout happens at catchweight. If GSP moves up to middleweight permanently then it would be fine.

Fans want to see the fight, yes. UFC would appease all the hardcore fans if the fight happened. However, I don't think UFC would have any less PPV buyers if the fight DIDN'T happen. They would get to earn big numbers for...one PPV. After that, if Silva retires after winning, you have one of your top draws retire while another top draw loses some fans for losing. Just not a wise business decision for the UFC.

Of course, I'm not a businessman so I might not be entirely right.

Silva would dominate GSP.

Edit: 5a.m here, mind not really functioning right yet...might comment more later on.
I agree with EVERYTHING up until the "business" side of things.

To me, the UFC's biggest fight ALL TIME would be Silva Vs GSP. Even Silva Vs Jones might be played ass a "flavour of the month" kind of thing if Silva wins. GSP and Spider is as big as it gets, and as you said at the start it's win/win for GSP.

As a business, UFC doesnt come close to boxing. As much as we like to seperate them, they are both contact sports and they are compairable. GSP Vs Silva is everything boxing wants to do with Pac and May, and even if it doesnt match May and De Lay Hoya it still signals progress for people like me, who have turned on boxing due to it's lack of just that.

Edit: It's 5:46am and I'm drunk as fuuuuuuuuuukkk
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I think I'm doing this the way Toxic intended...

I want to branch off of the original question as far as fighters who own their weight class or fighters who move around by asking this question.

How much of an effect should a fighter's performance in one weight division effect his standing if he moves to another?

I ask this question because on one hand you have Frankie Edgar, who in this guy's opinion should be the LW Champ anyway. Frankie drops to FW for an immediate title shot against Jose. Now in a lot of ways, I think this could be seen as a slap in the face to the FW division, sort of saying "he's coming for a bigger division, it must be better". But on the other hand, you have Chael Sonnen, who most people, including Dana White, think could get a title shot should he steam roll Forrest, and he's coming from a smaller division.

So again, I ask, if Fighter X is a badass in one division should he jump into the top spot, or even the top 3 by moving? Or should he have to start at the bottom of the ladder and come back up?
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Kinda shocked that people are talking old fights and size disadvantages yet no mention of Royce Gracie. He was, for me at least, the reason I got into MMA (particularly BJJ). Here's this normal looking 185 pound man (natural WW) fighting HW's and dominating. I thought Kimo was going to kill him, same with Shamrock and Severn.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:52 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianRClover View Post
I think I'm doing this the way Toxic intended...

I want to branch off of the original question as far as fighters who own their weight class or fighters who move around by asking this question.

How much of an effect should a fighter's performance in one weight division effect his standing if he moves to another?

I ask this question because on one hand you have Frankie Edgar, who in this guy's opinion should be the LW Champ anyway. Frankie drops to FW for an immediate title shot against Jose. Now in a lot of ways, I think this could be seen as a slap in the face to the FW division, sort of saying "he's coming for a bigger division, it must be better". But on the other hand, you have Chael Sonnen, who most people, including Dana White, think could get a title shot should he steam roll Forrest, and he's coming from a smaller division.

So again, I ask, if Fighter X is a badass in one division should he jump into the top spot, or even the top 3 by moving? Or should he have to start at the bottom of the ladder and come back up?
IMO if a fighter moves weight classes he should automatically move to roughly the same spot on the new division's ladder, so long as he doesn't get an automatic title shot. Everyone should be at least 1-0 in a division before getting a title fight.
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:03 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:36 PM   #30 (permalink)

 
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I think a top fighter moving down should need one fight to justify his spot but a guy moving up should not be granted the same grace. That said I have no issue with Edgar getting an instant shot since he has lost two controversial fights at LW for the title in a row and is moving down to a shallow division and its not about the credibility of Edgar as a challenger but more so about the fact that Edgar is more credible than any challenger and to a certain extent more credible than the FW champ. Edgar doesn't need credibility to fight for the FW title he adds credibility to the division by fighting for the title.
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