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**BlueLander** · 10-11-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joabbuac

Plus...fighters dont put people on ignore...

And all this time I thought Jon Jones was a real fighter

Joabbuac · 10-11-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueLander

And all this time I thought Jon Jones was a real fighter

I was just trying to make sure he doesnt put me on ignore honestly

rabakill · 10-11-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz

^This. With shin splints I'm already barley able to pivot.

And as for Brock with his disease. You said "he changed after the Carwin fight" (@ rabakill). The Carwin fight could have been easily stopped, making it no different from the Cain fight. Lesnar didnt do anything different in either fights. He lay fetal and took a beating. One ref opted to end it, one gave him the chance to go on. Luckily for Lesnar, Carwin half died in the first and he got the submission, but there was virtually no difference between the first rounds.

I've got loads of respect for Lesnar and think he did something different and was highly successful with it, but when he faught proper strikers he crumbled every time.

He was harder to break mentally, he took a beating because he sucks at striking and Carwin had good tdd. He broke so quickly against Cain and against Overeem he just didn't care at all, he was beaten before he even stepped in the octagon. It's the difference between when a fighter only loses if the other guy breaks him physically or when a fighter will beat himself, losing his sense of physical superiority took away all his confidence because he always knew he couldn't strike at all. Happens in every sport, take Rene Bourque for example, he was a wrecking machine of a hockey player, got injured, became a timid wuss that would shy away from guys half his size. The Brock that went in against Mir and Herring went in with fire, the Brock that fought Cain was unsure and the Brock that fought Overeem had a 0% chance of winning. It's like when a guy blows out his knee and he's always weary of going all out even if it does fully heal.

I'm not even blaming Brock, getting sick like that would end most people's athletic career.

**deadmanshand** · 10-11-2012, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liddellianenko

Just out of curiosity, how do you train now with your leg in a brace or with a cain?

I would imagine the pivoting involved in throwing a real boxing punch would render that almost impossible with a torn thigh, let alone actually practicing kickboxing.

No offense, just curious.

I'm supposed to use a cane or a leg brace. I don't. Out of stubborness more than anything. Mostly it's just that some days it's not that bad. Not often but when it's good - usually the day after I have access to a hot tub for a while - I put on a compression brace and go train for a while. Feels good just hitting the bag. If I'm lucky I get to spar for a bit.

But we're only talking a few days out of the month if I'm lucky. Less in spring and fall when the weather's changing but I do what I can do. More often I get to help train other guys. Which I do enjoy but I'm not a teacher at heart.

Voiceless · 10-11-2012, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClydebankBlitz

^This. With shin splints I'm already barley able to pivot.

And as for Brock with his disease. You said "he changed after the Carwin fight" (@ rabakill). The Carwin fight could have been easily stopped, making it no different from the Cain fight. Lesnar didnt do anything different in either fights. He lay fetal and took a beating. One ref opted to end it, one gave him the chance to go on. Luckily for Lesnar, Carwin half died in the first and he got the submission, but there was virtually no difference between the first rounds.

Which is correct is that Lesnar didn't fight back in both fights, so the referee could have stopped the fight against Carwin. But actually there was a difference: Because of Carwins stupidity, most of his shots landed on Lesnar's forearms. So Lesnar didn't get that hurt. In contrast, Velasquez picked his shots and really hurt Lesnar.

So against Carwin the fetal position was the result of timidity, against Velaasquez it was because of real damage.

Concerning the discussion whether you can learn how to take a punch and how to react on it, according to my observations over the years in the gyms, actually both parties where somewhat right. Yes, you can train to take a punch and to get rid of your timidity, BUT only to some extend. There are people who react better to pressure than other people, and they always will if they have comparable training. I'm not sure whether it's purely genetically or early childhood imprinting, but usually after less than a year of hard sparring you can see whether someone has that "never give up"-spirit under pressure or whether he hasn't. It's the same as in every other aspect of things to train. You can train to run and you will run faster, but only few people can get to Olympic level. And to stay at an elite level of MMA, you have to be one of those guys genetically gifted/correctly imprinted in early childhood at reacting to be under pressure. And Lesnar doesn't seem to be one of those, after his illness even less.

**ClydebankBlitz** · 10-11-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabakill

He was harder to break mentally, he took a beating because he sucks at striking and Carwin had good tdd. He broke so quickly against Cain and against Overeem he just didn't care at all, he was beaten before he even stepped in the octagon. It's the difference between when a fighter only loses if the other guy breaks him physically or when a fighter will beat himself, losing his sense of physical superiority took away all his confidence because he always knew he couldn't strike at all. Happens in every sport, take Rene Bourque for example, he was a wrecking machine of a hockey player, got injured, became a timid wuss that would shy away from guys half his size. The Brock that went in against Mir and Herring went in with fire, the Brock that fought Cain was unsure and the Brock that fought Overeem had a 0% chance of winning. It's like when a guy blows out his knee and he's always weary of going all out even if it does fully heal.

I'm not even blaming Brock, getting sick like that would end most people's athletic career.

Okay, maybe getting smashed against Carwin hurt his ego, but that's still the fighter that's ego was hurt. He's the same fighter against Overeem and against Mir. Those striking insecurities were always there, he just had to get punched to feel them. I dont think his sickness was anything to do with his last two fights. To be fair, they were against two of the best heavyweights ever, both killer strikers, and he didnt stand a chance going in really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voiceless

Which is correct is that Lesnar didn't fight back in both fights, so the referee could have stopped the fight against Carwin. But actually there was a difference: Because of Carwins stupidity, most of his shots landed on Lesnar's forearms. So Lesnar didn't get that hurt. In contrast, Velasquez picked his shots and really hurt Lesnar.

So against Carwin the fetal position was the result of timidity, against Velaasquez it was because of real damage.

Concerning the discussion whether you can learn how to take a punch and how to react on it, according to my observations over the years in the gyms, actually both parties where somewhat right. Yes, you can train to take a punch and to get rid of your timidity, BUT only to some extend. There are people who react better to pressure than other people, and they always will if they have comparable training. I'm not sure whether it's purely genetically or early childhood imprinting, but usually after less than a year of hard sparring you can see whether someone has that "never give up"-spirit under pressure or whether he hasn't. It's the same as in every other aspect of things to train. You can train to run and you will run faster, but only few people can get to Olympic level. And to stay at an elite level of MMA, you have to be one of those guys genetically gifted/correctly imprinted in early childhood at reacting to be under pressure. And Lesnar doesn't seem to be one of those, after his illness even less.

Yeah Velasquez finishes fights much better than Carwin. The referee could have stopped it but I have always been in Brock's corner with it. He was HATED at the time (well in non MMA site dicussions) and I sort of liked him. I defended him before it and when people said "They'd have ended it with anyone else, this is corrupt" I was thinking "He was able to come back and win the fight, he defended well enough that means". No chance with Cain.

Your last part wasnt really what we were talking about, but I agree with all of it.

**Liddellianenko** · 10-12-2012, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadmanshand

I'm supposed to use a cane or a leg brace. I don't. Out of stubborness more than anything. Mostly it's just that some days it's not that bad. Not often but when it's good - usually the day after I have access to a hot tub for a while - I put on a compression brace and go train for a while. Feels good just hitting the bag. If I'm lucky I get to spar for a bit.

But we're only talking a few days out of the month if I'm lucky. Less in spring and fall when the weather's changing but I do what I can do. More often I get to help train other guys. Which I do enjoy but I'm not a teacher at heart.

It's quite remarkable you'd be able to do that, knowing how easily torn muscles are re-torn. I've had some myself that re-tore multiple times, and after the third time or so I practically refused to acknowledge that I possessed the arm for nearly half a year, until I was bloody sure it was good as new.

It's also quite surprising that all your fights were on VHS and lost ... when you'd mentioned you're 29, the same age as myself, I couldn't help but recall the last time I'd seen a VHS tape. Probably watching Robocop and Lion King as a kid. Cheap digital cameras with video capability have been around for over a decade, and even video capable cell phones have been around and affordable for 6-7 years. So unless you had all your 30+ fights between age 14-17 in the pee wee leagues, it's surprising you never once felt the need to have a buddy or camp mate turn the ol cellphone your way for a few minutes while you were at your best.

And as mentioned before, you've thrown about a few different versions of your fighting experience and active years, all bound together by multiple subtexts and qualifications of "that number was because I was talking about blah, this new number is because of this" etc.

Not to mention your grandiose claims of NEVER. EVER. LYING. EVER. CEREAL. SUPER CEREAL. set quite a high bar as well. I generally believe lying to be wrong in my belief system, yet even so I've caught myself trying to bend the truth or exaggerating many times.

So you can imagine why people on the internet get skeptical about your passive claims to badassery with possibly the largest fight record on the forum (over 30 amateur fights), while laughing about every equally dubious claim made by others like Joabbac or the purported pole-dancing ballerina bellator-fighter-girlfriend playboy centerfold that was on here a while back.

However, in the event everything you said is true, I don't want to deride you or hurt your feelings. I know what it's like to sit frustrated for months and in constant pain from torn muscles, being unable to do daily tasks normally let alone do what you love, so if what you say is true then it's much worse and I sincerely hope you do heal well over time.

Whether or not your claims are true, only you know, and if they are more power to you and wish the best for your injury. Either way, your purported fight background doesn't matter too much and what matters is the validity of your views and posts on their own merit, because this is the internet and everything unproven is taken with a pinch of salt anyway.

Try not to take it personally, because as mentioned, you've treated others' claims with the same lens. And when calling out others claims while presenting zero proof for your own, try not to get too riled up bro. It's only natural to question, as you of all people would know.

**Sugar-Free_LizaG** · 10-12-2012, 05:33 AM

To get back on topic-

Brock achieved so much with so little experience, he should leave it at this and move on. As for the Heyman reports? I'll believe it when I see it happen.

**Tyson Fury** · 10-12-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roflcopter

People realize that Paul Heyman isn't actually an agent right?

This is typically pro wrestling tomfoolery.

Yeah as far as I'm aware he's just a friend and confident.

jonnyg4508 · 10-12-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded

Quotes from you in another thread about your boxing experience when I called you out on it:

You also claim in the other thread that you boxed for 15 years:

Thread link:

http://www.mmaforum.com/ufc/103863-n...cement-14.html

You keep changing your mind when it comes to what you have and haven't done. You had been boxing for 15 years for fun and did it as a hobby, therefore you had no recordings or pictures of yourself boxing.

Then you had been boxing for 14 years and had numerous amateur fights in boxing and kickboxing.

Now you're claiming to be crippled from all of the boxing.

So you're obviously supposed to be at least in your thirties. A 30 odd year old man who comes on this forum and seems to rage and insult members after every other post.

The reality is, you've probably never stepped into a boxing ring in your entire life, you're most likely in your late teens or early twenties and fit the bill as a narcissistic compulsive liar.

He was so in to his hobbies that he crippled himself over it!

The term "get a hobby" really doesn't sit well in this case!