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Old 10-28-2012, 01:50 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Because there is a huge difference in actually doing the killing yourself and picking up a vacuum packed packet of bacon in the store. You are physically taking a life in the first. Out of site out of mind.
I really don't understand what this means?

So because someone who wants to hunt is taking the life it is a problem? But gathering hundreds of unaware animals in a dirty factory for slaughter is fine? Because you only see a package in the store? I don't get it?

One way an animal has free reign of the country to run. Where it actually takes quite a lot of knowledge know-how to be able to get a good shot on an animal. Other way animals are raised on a farm and fattened up, living in non-natural places waiting to stand in a line to be slaughtered.

One way seems pretty inhumane and it isn't hunting.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:42 PM   #102 (permalink)
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nah dude totally wrong. I think hughes is one of the greatest fighters of all time. I read his book and he's a prick but i have huge respect for his achievements in the cage.
I cant make my point any more clear, killing animals for sport and fun is wrong. We as developed human being know better then that and we don't need a book written 2000 years ago to tell us what is right and wrong
The many bibles in the world are garbage, that's about the only thing I can agree with in your argument.

You do realize that people who hunt don't just leave the meat and stuff lying around, right? They use the food/material that is left behind? Why does it matter if they enjoy it or not? If they are using the animal, what is the problem?

Also, you realize that it isn't the "kill" that excites them, it's the hunt, right? It's being out in the woods with a gun, tracking an animal, finding it, making sure to do all the things right and get the shot off. The actual death of the animal isn't what they have fun doing, it's the hunt that leads up to the death and the death is the end result, in which they use the meat/materials so it doesn't go to waste.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:50 PM   #103 (permalink)
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Neither would I dude, not at all its part of life for many people. I would criticize people who are killing for pleasure which is what Hughes was doing.
I think M.C nailed it. It's not the kill that excites them, rather catching their prey and the hunt itself.

Only hunters i dispise are the scums of earth that do elephant poaching etc.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:13 PM   #104 (permalink)
 
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The many bibles in the world are garbage, that's about the only thing I can agree with in your argument.

You do realize that people who hunt don't just leave the meat and stuff lying around, right? They use the food/material that is left behind? Why does it matter if they enjoy it or not? If they are using the animal, what is the problem?

Also, you realize that it isn't the "kill" that excites them, it's the hunt, right? It's being out in the woods with a gun, tracking an animal, finding it, making sure to do all the things right and get the shot off. The actual death of the animal isn't what they have fun doing, it's the hunt that leads up to the death and the death is the end result, in which they use the meat/materials so it doesn't go to waste.
You make a fair point. I see hughes behind that massive beast and Im thinking it does not take a lot of 'hunting' on the open plains of africa to kill that. Same with the point I made about the king of spain, he wont be eating that elephant. So not everyone is in it for the hunt like you say, there are plenty of people in it for the killing. How much hunt is involved with an elephant?
Theres a neighbour of mine who is constantly shooting his rifle in his garden, he has a couple of acres of land now, but he has no crops/veg planted etc but spends his afternoon shooting hares and rabbits and I suppose whatever else is in the line of sight. Unless he is eating rabbit 7 days a week this guy likes killing and it seems to me theres plenty of people like that around
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:21 PM   #105 (permalink)
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Dude lets not pretend hunting in africa has anything to do with population control of animals for a continent of starving people.
Bottom line is Hughes went to africa to kill animals because he likes killing animals. You guys in the states have laws that allow it etc so you think its fine, but the reality is people who hunt enjoy killing animals. Anyone who enjoys killing animals to me is a sick souless ****er. Im sorry but thats how I see killing animals. I might respect you as a tough dude and ex fighter but if you would tell me that you enjoy going out killing deer etc, a beautiful animal, I would tell you you are a sick heartless ****er.

I can only tolerate the killing of animals if they are somehow causing a problem to your farm, health or whatever. But again we are talking about africa here. Stick another 10mil animals there and you still won't have enough. Hughes went to kill for pleasure simple as that lets not try and dance around it.
Hunters do not enjoy the killing. Let me repeat this. Hunters do not enjoy the killing. It's about the challenge - the tracking, the patience, the skill of the shot. They make the kill cleanly, take a trophy of the trip, and use the animal appropriately*. They feed their families or in some places they give the meat to homeless shelters. Very, very few people go and shoot animals because it gets them hot.

What you are doing is projected an attitude and moral state over an entire culture which you have no firsthand experience of. From what I gather your British. Hunting for the British means a fox hunt where it is killing for sport. It's a massive hunt to murder a fox. No one eats the flesh. No one gets anything besides some rich bastard on a horse.

That is not what we are discussing. We are discussing actual hunters. People that I have known all of my life. My roommate is a hunter. He's not a heartless sociopath. A goober maybe but not heartless (Hey, ArcherCC!). My fiance has hunted and she is the most soft hearted person I have ever known. She cried when the dog died in I Am Legend.

*Note: Shake That Bear is not an appropriate use of a hunting kill.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #106 (permalink)
 
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Im Irish, but yeah we have(had) the hunt also. Maybe I do misunderstand the whole philosophy of hunting regarding the skills tracking etc involved. That is a debatable point I agree, but there is skill in the fox hunt also, that skill doesn't mean anything to the poor fox though who is getting chased down scared shitless and eventually dies by being shot if the owners can manage to keep the dogs from ripping it apart.
Seeing the picture of that animal and hughes and the size of those creatures he killed probably driving round in the back of a safari jeep what is your opinion of what he has done there?
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:40 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DonRifle View Post
Im Irish, but yeah we have(had) the hunt also. Maybe I do misunderstand the whole philosophy of hunting regarding the skills tracking etc involved. That is a debatable point I agree, but there is skill in the fox hunt also, that skill doesn't mean anything to the poor fox though who is getting chased down scared shitless and eventually dies by being shot if the owners can manage to keep the dogs from ripping it apart.
Seeing the picture of that animal and hughes and the size of those creatures he killed probably driving round in the back of a safari jeep what is your opinion of what he has done there?
The kill was legal, clean, the target wasn't endangered, and the meat was given to people who needed it. I don't see a problem here and I hate Matt Hughes. I have met the man and read his book but I just can't find anything about this to get up in arms about.

It comes down to this - if you eat meat you have no high ground or moral authority to condemn hunters. None. It is complete hypocritical bleeding heart bs. The only difference between hunting your meat and buying it in a store is honesty. The hunter doesn't bs himself about what he is doing. That's why he respects the animals he kills.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #108 (permalink)
 
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I really don't understand what this means?

So because someone who wants to hunt is taking the life it is a problem? But gathering hundreds of unaware animals in a dirty factory for slaughter is fine? Because you only see a package in the store? I don't get it?

One way an animal has free reign of the country to run. Where it actually takes quite a lot of knowledge know-how to be able to get a good shot on an animal. Other way animals are raised on a farm and fattened up, living in non-natural places waiting to stand in a line to be slaughtered.

One way seems pretty inhumane and it isn't hunting.
Well take this example as the point im trying to make

Imagine you are a politician signing off the order to send a drone into some al quieda hotspot to drop some bombs and kill some terrorists. Your doing it from your nice office, you dont see who is going to get killed or the collateral damage, the lives that will get destroyed.
If that politician was actually on the ground walked around the target area saw the people and so on that were going to die aside from the terrorists he would probably have a different opinion on sending that drone strike. Suddenly he has the image of the families that are dead. Thats what I mean about out of sight, out of mind.

I had a construction project in the philippines where its custom to put pigs blood on the site for good luck and also fatten up a pig on the site and kill it at the end of the project and eat it. I was up in the building one day and I start hearing this horrible screaming from the pig because the workers were killing it to eat that night. Blood letting which takes quite a while all the time the pig screaming wildy. I had to get as far away from the site as possible and I didnt eat any bacon for a few months. The point is when that shit happens right in front of you your visual and hearing senses pic it up and it has a much greater effect on you
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #109 (permalink)
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English people suddenly taking a stand against hunting after killing every single big game animal in their entire country... lel

I kind of understand though. To the British hunting means going out and just indiscriminately killing everything that moves and using nothing but the pelt to make hats and leaving the rest to rot.

For Americans and us Canadians, it means paying huge taxes and levies to fund conservation efforts, only hunting during season, and only on animal populations that can sustain it.

If you want to get bent out of shape over something, take a look into our fishing industry. Now THAT is shameful. But fish aren't cute, I guess.

This is like British people whining about American 'imperialism'.

I like you GR, but this thread is ass. You remind me of my cousins who all live in the UK still. Constantly criticizing other countries because the UK finally decided to grow a conscience like 30 years ago, but only after they were no longer capable of abusing anyone anyway. It would mean something if you guys had had this kind of change of heart when you were still relevant on the world stage.

Edit: From reading through this thread, this is clearly a case of the old: If you want a strong opinion on something, ask someone who knows nothing about it.

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:50 PM   #110 (permalink)
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What does you not wanting to see the act make a difference when we are talking what is humane or not?

You don't have to slaughter cows.
You don't have to hunt in the woods.

What does it have to do with the actual act that is being done?
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