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Old 10-28-2012, 06:42 PM   #131 (permalink)
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Scientific research over the last ten years is heavily towards animals experiencing a range of emotions. Obviously emotion hard to prove because they can't speak to us and this is one of the biggest arguments of those who say they dont experience emotions. You can research that pretty fast if you care to online.

Its pretty clear to me that when a dog is happy he wags his tail and when he is unhappy his tail goes between his legs. When a cat swishes his tail he is not happy and so on...thats animal emotion at the most basic level we see every day.

MC I think we have more capacity as humans to understand things like cruelty, we are not cave men anymore. Maybe it is human nature to do things like that, but then they bring in a lot of laws around the world to combat things that are human nature. Human nature doesnt make it good. Greed for example put the world into an economic spin for the last 5 years and that is human nature that has now (banking) had various laws applied to it.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:54 PM   #132 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DonRifle View Post
Scientific research over the last ten years is heavily towards animals experiencing a range of emotions. Obviously emotion hard to prove because they can't speak to us and this is one of the biggest arguments of those who say they dont experience emotions. You can research that pretty fast if you care to online.

Its pretty clear to me that when a dog is happy he wags his tail and when he is unhappy his tail goes between his legs. When a cat swishes his tail he is not happy and so on...thats animal emotion at the most basic level we see every day.

MC I think we have more capacity as humans to understand things like cruelty, we are not cave men anymore. Maybe it is human nature to do things like that, but then they bring in a lot of laws around the world to combat things that are human nature. Human nature doesnt make it good. Greed for example put the world into an economic spin for the last 5 years and that is human nature that has now (banking) had various laws applied to it.
We have more capacity of thought, but that doesn't stop an astonishingly large amount of people from doing it anyways, because it's human nature. You're telling people that because they are acting like humans, they are cruel to animals or whatever. Well, if acting like humans is cruel to animals, maybe we are cruel to animals? So is every other species of animal in the whole entire world.

There's a serious reason why such a large group of people still hunt and kill animals when it's not necessary, and that reason isn't because we have twisted morals, it's because it's in our nature to do so. In fact, quite the opposite - we know that hurting animals for no reason is wrong that's why there are laws against it. Hunting, however, is a part of our natural instincts and we have created a system that allows for it while proving a service bonus (population control, materials, food) and in a quick way so the animal doesn't suffer much.

People have hunted animals since the beginning of our existence, that isn't going away. Just be glad we have put in place a current system that keeps the animal from suffering, keeps things so that we don't overkill (except for poachers which is illegal), and that we make good use of the animal after it's dead.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Don, what you're saying regarding greed in economics etc. is basically like saying we should change something that every human being in history has experienced and performed. Hunting to me would probably be more humane than raising an animal to eat, or even killing a fly. People want to hunt and if they own the free land to do so, you can't say anything against them. There are animals that would be in over population if hunting never existed.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:09 PM   #134 (permalink)
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There are animals that would be in over population if hunting never existed.
So you're suggesting if humans didn't exist, the world would be overpopulated by animals? If so, define overpopulated if you don't mind.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #135 (permalink)
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So you're suggesting if humans didn't exist, the world would be overpopulated by animals? If so, define overpopulated if you don't mind.
The reason you don't run into deers with your car everytime you go into town is because people hunt deer and keep the population down (this happens a lot even with all the hunting). The reason bobcats don't sneak into your yard at night and eat your dog, is because people hunt them.

Hunting is a vital reason for why our cities/civilizations can live in peace without worry of being attacked by a wild animal when we leave the house, why our pets aren't getting eaten. This is especailly a problem in rural areas where people live, and they have deer/bears/bobcats and other types of animals running amok even with all the hunting that takes place.

You just don't have to do the hunting, you reap the benefits of it everyday, though.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:34 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Scientific research over the last ten years is heavily towards animals experiencing a range of emotions. Obviously emotion hard to prove because they can't speak to us and this is one of the biggest arguments of those who say they dont experience emotions. You can research that pretty fast if you care to online.

Its pretty clear to me that when a dog is happy he wags his tail and when he is unhappy his tail goes between his legs. When a cat swishes his tail he is not happy and so on...thats animal emotion at the most basic level we see every day.
I said they did not experience the emotions in the way you understand them and they do not. All the research supports that. They do experience emotional responses. So do plants as a matter of fact.

That is actually you misinterpreting behavioral clues from the animals. It's called anthropomorphisizing. Where in you attribute human traits to the creatures, objects, or places that do not actually have them. Any animal behavior specialist will tell you that your basic understanding of why they are doing the things they are is wrong.

Now - before you spew any more animal cruelty comments my way - I love animals. I have had multiple dogs, cats, ferrets, lizards, and one lovable miniature pot bellied pig named Mr. Pibb. I am in the process of talking my fiance into letting me get a hedgehog since we can't have dogs where we live. Next to my computer I have pictures of my first dog - a Doberman Pinscher named Eva. I loved that dog. One of my first memories is lying in bed with her curled up next to me.

But I still understand that they aren't human. Animals have their own role to play just as we do. Taking them as food or companion is equally natural for us.

And I'm done here. You aren't interested in learning. All you want to do is condemn others like a preacher denouncing heretics. Fine. But I don't have to listen and I am choosing to exercise that right.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:56 PM   #137 (permalink)
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Your happy to be around an animal screaming wildly for 15-20 minutes?
We're they raping it or slaughtering it??? It doesn't take 15-20 minutes to kill a pig.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:05 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DonRifle View Post
Scientific research over the last ten years is heavily towards animals experiencing a range of emotions. Obviously emotion hard to prove because they can't speak to us and this is one of the biggest arguments of those who say they dont experience emotions. You can research that pretty fast if you care to online.

Its pretty clear to me that when a dog is happy he wags his tail and when he is unhappy his tail goes between his legs. When a cat swishes his tail he is not happy and so on...thats animal emotion at the most basic level we see every day.
Why is this relevant information?
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:11 PM   #139 (permalink)
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MC yes fair enough.

Deadman, yes I read about that term, but at some point you have to put some logic together.
I used to have a jack russell that rubbed his behind on the floor all the time, so we had to take him to the vet every six months or so to get his anal glands cleaned. Not a pleasant process at all for the little fella. Each time we pulled into the driveway of the vet he would start going frantic and once he was up on the examination table he would lose his hair like crazy and start foaming at the mouth. That was the only time he would ever get like that, and for me its a very blatant example of fear in an animal and will do as my own sample of scientific research. Im sure it varies animal to animal but for me that argument you mention doesn't work at all because I have seen to much varying emotions in that jack russell I could give examples of all day.

Bobby its a ritual they do there of bleeding out the pig
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:14 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Because the Bible says you can. Hahah.
The Bible also says that slavery is okay, Matt. Read Leviticus.
But I'm sure Matt's okay with slavery too.

On a side note, I can see both sides of the issue. I don't hunt, nor will I ever, but I won't comdemn people who hunt for subsistence, population control, and other ecologically beneficial factors. But hunting for sport? Not a fan. We share the earth with these animals, I think we should show them some respect.
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