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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 02:09 PM
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Then don't post in this topic.

Like I said, Brandon Vera has always been extremely overrated.

The dude wrestled a bit in the army and they acted like he was a D1 calibre wrestler despite having terrible takedown defense most of his career. His standup was just average, especially his defense...

Brandon Vera was nothing more than a hype train that got derailed, not a waste of talent.


He was never that talented to begin with. He beat two scrubs and an injured Frank Mir after the accident and people acted like he was the shit.


As far as my "opinion" it's pretty much reality...I know you might not even know who the guy is, but it was pretty sad considering his natural ability to submit dudes in the cage.

Definitely more talented than a Joe Lauzon...if he would've took his career more seriously and dropped to 155.

There is a difference between being overrated and being talented. Saying Vera has no talent is stupid. As far as your opinion, I was obviously referring to your opinion of Vera. I am well aware of Drew Fickett and agree that he has taken an unfortunate slide in his life/career.

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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 02:10 PM
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BJ Penn

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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 02:14 PM
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Mark Kerr- he had it all, but his addictions ruined him. He was like Mark Coleman with striking...too bad

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post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 02:20 PM
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Frank Mir a couple reasons first the motorcycle accident he probably could have held the belt for a while back in the day when the HW division was thin.

As of lately I remember watching a show before one of his fights or something and seeing his camps and training and he brings his family to his training camps and seems like he just kind of does what he wants he also has his dad do a lot of the cornering and calling strategies. I think even nowadays if he went to say a greg jacksons or aka or something like the he could do a lot better i believe.
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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 02:23 PM
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Joe Stevenson immediately sprung to mind. Great BJJ, geart Wrestling, decent standup. He was a beast then just hit a wall it seemed (not just one name BJ Penn...another waste of talent). Joe went on an insane losing streak to guys we would have destroyed a year before.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 06:07 PM
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Penn

He's already highly touted but like someone else said, if he trained even close to what GSP trains, he would have been regarded as one the best to ever be in the sport. Penn already has a decorated career, I'm not trying to knock the guys career but in 5-10 years from now, you will remember Anderson and GSP for the most part depending on how he does in the next 2-3 years after the surgery. Will Penn be remembered? might be, but there will always be doubts and what could have beens surrounding him.

For the better part of his carer, he relied on nothing but talent and out of his 26 fights, how many can you say that he was in the best shape he possibly could have been? maybe 5, not much more though.
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoopsiePuffs View Post
There is a difference between being overrated and being talented. Saying Vera has no talent is stupid. As far as your opinion, I was obviously referring to your opinion of Vera. I am well aware of Drew Fickett and agree that he has taken an unfortunate slide in his life/career.

Vera had talent as a mid-level UFC fighter...which is pretty evident.


There isn't anything to suggest he underachieved in any shape or form.

We never heard anything about bad work ethic, he didn't show up out of shape, he didn't have problems with drugs and alcohol...he was just a 8-0 dude that beat a few low level dudes then got exposed for being an average long dude with decent Muay Thai and bad defensive wrestling.


This topic is about underachievers.


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Joe Stevenson immediately sprung to mind. Great BJJ, geart Wrestling, decent standup. He was a beast then just hit a wall it seemed (not just one name BJ Penn...another waste of talent). Joe went on an insane losing streak to guys we would have destroyed a year before.
He peaked like any other fighter.

He also started fighting when he was 17 or so, so his prime was a lot shorter.

Again...not a waste or an underachiever, he's just shot, his body broke down after 13+ years in the sport.


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Frank Mir a couple reasons first the motorcycle accident he probably could have held the belt for a while back in the day when the HW division was thin.

As of lately I remember watching a show before one of his fights or something and seeing his camps and training and he brings his family to his training camps and seems like he just kind of does what he wants he also has his dad do a lot of the cornering and calling strategies. I think even nowadays if he went to say a greg jacksons or aka or something like the he could do a lot better i believe.


I agree.

I think the only person who has worse camps than Mir is Roy Nelson....who actually...goes pretty well with this topic.


Dude was literally training in his living room while fighting guys like Andrei Arlovski and Ben Rothwell. Just unfathomable.



Mir seems to be a guy who spends more time rolling on the mat than actually training MMA.


And the motorcycle accident probably robbed him a few spots on the All time HW list.

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post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:43 PM
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Wilson gouveia= Had decent boxing, excellent ground game- he made light work of Jason McDonald and Ryan Jensen on the ground, two guys known for their grappling, but he rarely trained hard enough and was notorious in ATT for being lazy and having a bad attitude.

Philipe nover= blessed with natural talent and athleticism, when he ploughed through everyone on TUF, it looked like Dana had unearthed a gem, but he proved in the final against escudero, that he folds under pressure and hasn't got the heart to fight through adversity. In almost all his losses you can see he basically gives up, and if a guy as no heart, he won't get very far.
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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 09:26 PM
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Guillard and by a mile for me. For guys that come to mind he was the first and really only guy who came to me.

He still has lightening quick hands. Power. TONS of Athleticism. A decent wrestling base.

Quote:
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Joe Stevenson immediately sprung to mind. Great BJJ, geart Wrestling, decent standup. He was a beast then just hit a wall it seemed (not just one name BJ Penn...another waste of talent). Joe went on an insane losing streak to guys we would have destroyed a year before.
I don't agree with this. Was a big Joe Daddy fan, and he seems to have lost the love for the sport. But that is fine, he was getting passed up by evolving fighters.

He won a ton of fights in his career fighting at weights that were way to big for him. He was a little T-Rex with short arms. When fighters evolved he couldn't compete with them at 155. They were too long. Too well versed in wrestling or BJJ. He had a weird body type. He got all the way to a title shot with BJ Penn. I would say he was quite accomplished. Especially when you realize his stature was suited for 135, but he was just so naturally thick. If the UFC would have had a 145 division, he would have been there way earlier in his career.

Last edited by jonnyg4508; 10-28-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 10:32 PM
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If Brandon Vera bulked up and stayed at HW he might have been a UFC HW champion. He could have defeated Nog or Lesnar, he could have jumped to Strikeforce and taken out Fedor. He could have been a champion but he chose just to be enhancement talent for future and former ones.
Lesnar would have mauled Vera, even a bigger stronger Vera. Pre-illness Lesnar would have made him his bitch.

While he's not a 'waste' of talent per say, I think Shogun would have been even better without the chronic knee injuries. He's still a legend but clearly, his best days are behind him.

BJ's wasted a ton of his talent for sure, during his Lightweight title run, that was just a different man, he was living up to his potential and he laid one of the ungodliest ass whippin's of our time on Diego Sanchez. That was an animal, a savage, an ass kicking machine, then he left the Marinovich's and he went downhill from there.

I do think, with Edgar gone though and if properly motivated, he could be Lightweight Champ again but that may just me being one of those diehard BJ fans who think he's God's gift to MMA.

Tyson Griffin also deserves a mention, I was for sure thinking he'd at least fight for the title in 2010 after he beat Franca but man he went down hill big time. Griffin vs. Guida is still one of my all time favorite fights.

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