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Old 10-30-2012, 12:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Probably because he beats so many 185er so easily that no one wants to place them there.

185 Vitor just gave Bones a tougher fight than Shogun did.

185 Sonnen is focking getting a title shot at 205.

2 guys Anderson WHOOPED up on at 185 are now getting title shots at 205. And another guys who WAS going to get it was Hendo....Who Anderson ALSO beat down at 185.

Jones is fighting a bunch of 185ers Anderson has killed. And you want to act like 205 fighters are so much better? How?

That makes no sense. You are caught up in name value. Shogun is a shell of his former self fighting a close one with Vera. Rampage is a joke. Rashad is a guy who belongs at 185. The 205 division is a joke because many don't want to cut the weight. Because they are too old to do so.

205 division is so overrated. How can you still rate it so high when they are having to recycle ANderson's 185 left overs and give them title shots at 205? How can you with a straight face bash 185 and gloat about 205? Seems idiotic.
You make some fair points, but the counter argument to Vitor and Chael getting title shots is that they didn't earn those shots. They got their shots because of their "names" as opposed to earning it by defeating a top ten guy.

Looking at the 185lbers in the top ten right now

Chael Sonnen - Jeremy Horn, Babalu, Griffin
Chris Weidman - NCAA - Davis
Belfort - Liddell, Sakuraba, Couture
Munoz - Hamill
Bisping - Evans
Boetsch - Matyshenko, Brilz, Davis

Notice the common theme...LHW wrestlers taking natural LHW's down to MW. LHW maybe overrated but it's still dominant to MW.

I don't argue with 205 being overrated, personally I consider WW, FlyW(now) and LW's to be where the real P4P fighters compete.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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The very nature of the middleweight division is for fighters who can't/won't compete at their natural 205 weight class (Bisping, Belfort, Boetsch, Weidman(NCAA), Sonnen, Munoz) and Silva are LHW's. This is a big reason why you never see other fighters from 185 even considered for P4P lists. Coming in 202 might mean something if Jon Jones didn't come in at 204 for his last fight. How can Anderson Silva be the best P4P fighter in the world when no one else in his division is even in the discussion.
This is just the most flawed logic I've read in awhile. According to this, it's not physically possible for 185 to be your natural fighting weight? That's just assinine.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Man I can't believe some of the posts in here. As mentioned previously, AS makes him weight everytime he fights and if anything is smaller for his weight class than either Jones or GSP.

If we are talking about the p4p king there can be no doubt who is top between jones GSP and AS. Edgar has a very slight case but as said previously his close wins/losses move him well down the rankings. Anderson has literally destroyed everyone he has fought (bar Chael 1 which I can't be bothered to get into).

I'm literally at a point where nut-huggery aside I think people who believe anything else are borderline delusional. I can understand people can have their favourites but there is literally no logical argument which can back these opinions up - aside from bitterness from people who can't accept his greatness.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It's just foolish to consider weight and take pound 4 pound literally. It's impossible.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd just like to point out only one UFC Champion has a win over another current UFC Champion......

But yanno, no big deal.
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Am I the only one who defines P4P as a ranking relative to weight? Hence the phrase... pound for pound
I see it as a measurement of skill regardless of weight.

So, for example, JDS might be the p4p greatest of all time, because even if Frankie Edgar magically became 6"2 and 250lbs JDS still would win. Or you could reverse it and say if JDS was 155 he would still whomp Edgar because it is his skill not his size that makes him great.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:41 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rauno View Post
It's just foolish to consider weight and take pound 4 pound literally. It's impossible.
I sort of think this too.

But forget the title "P4P". And lets just call it best fighter in the world. We all have opinions of the best basketball players, football players, baseball players.....yet many play different positions. At least in fighting we are all comparing people who have the same jobs.

GSP can have his own opinion. And I like Edgar and think he is the rightful LW champ. But really how does he put a man who has had close...in some instances razor close fights in most of his last 4 or 5 fights? Win or lose he has been in fights where it is hard to judge. Many felt he lost the first BJ fight. Many thought he lost the first Maynard fight. Many believe he won the Bendo fights...but didn't.

How can a guy that has a majority of close fights get called the best? Edgar is awesome...but he has hardly ever been dominant over top competition.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:43 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
I sort of think this too.

But forget the title "P4P". And lets just call it best fighter in the world.
And that's how it should be taken. Taking weight into a P4P discussion doesn't make much sense.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:49 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I think this is more of a shot at Anderson Silva..

No can say Frankie Edgar is the best fighter in the world with a straight face...

No matter how you look at it, he's lost 2 in row. He's fighting Aldo next, so odds are it's gonna be 3.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rauno View Post
And that's how it should be taken. Taking weight into a P4P discussion doesn't make much sense.
Yea me either. Like 'could Aldo beat JDS if they were the same size"....I don't know. Who knows? Why is that relevant?

It comes down to what Aldo has done compared to what JDS has. Who he has beat. How he has beat them. His individual skills he has shown. How long he has done it.

I never understood what some people meant by P4P. I always just used P4P for = Best.
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