Originally Posted by deadmanshand
Stuffing some takedowns doesn't make him have good or even average tdd. If he did he might have beaten a wrestler at some point but he hasn't.
And, Grapple, Penn is a great defensive wrestler who caught Fitch off guard. He is not a great or even above average offensive wrestler. And I am really tired of discussing Diaz with you. You don't actually want people's reasons for thinking a wrestler will beat him. You just want them here so you can try and prove them wrong.
Stop twisting your original argument around. You said that Diaz has non-existent TDD and I have provided you with evidence of Diaz showcasing solid TDD against a man considered an elite level wrestler back in his day. Accept the fact that you massively over-exaggerated and move on, instead of trying to form new, pointless arguments.
I'm tired of hearing the "Penn just caught Fitch off guard" nonsense. Because it came out of Fitch's mouth. Fitch has been wrestling his entire life and has out wrestled almost all of his opponents to date. He will be training his ass off day after day at AKA improving on every facet of his MMA game. Offensive wrestling, defensive, striking, every thing. I don't want to hear the BS about Fitch not properly training his defensive wrestling because he never predicted BJ to go for a take down.
BJ has always had a strong but under utilised offensive wrestling game and there is no way the coaches at AKA didn't realise this, especially not Camirillo. BJ is known for his out standing top game and immediately taking the back. He gets to that position first off by scoring take downs.
Penn has taken down the likes of Florian, Frankie Edgar, Jon Fitch, a prime Takanori Gomi, hell, even Lyoto Machida he managed to score a take down against. He even scored a take down on GSP in their first fight.
He may not spam take downs like the majority of decorated wrestlers, but he does have strong offensive take downs in his arsenal and has proven that his entire career.
This discussion isn't about whether a wrestler will beat Diaz. Did you read any of the OP? It is about the misconception that a lot of fans seem to think that wrestlers lie on top of Diaz and smother him. That isn't the case.