Why is it the general consensus that Nick Diaz gets laid on by wrestlers? - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 10-30-2012, 01:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Why is it the general consensus that Nick Diaz gets laid on by wrestlers?

Not just on this board, but the online MMA community as a whole seem to be under the misconception that because Diaz has a history of losses to wrestlers, that the next wrestler he faces (possibly Koscheck) is just going to Paul Daley him for three rounds. Why?

There hasn't actually been a single fight where Diaz' opponent has smothered him from the top position for the majority of the fight. Not one. The last wrestler he fought - Sherk - was actually completely out grappled and made to look a bit silly in the grappling department.

Sanchez and Karo scored a bunch of take downs on Nick, but neither fighter was actually able to hold Nick down for a prolonged period of time. The Sanchez fight was just one huge scramble fest (one of my all time favourite fights).

From a statistical point of view, BJ Penn is actually one of the better wrestlers out there. He has an incredibly impressive take down/take down defense ratio and even he abandoned the take downs after he couldn't do any thing to Nick once he took him down. BJ has one of the very best top games in the sport.

So for those of you that are readily predicting Josh Koscheck to simply take Diaz down and hold him on the floor for fifteen minutes, I'd watch some of his older fights again (and even the recent one against Penn, where he completely out grappled him against the cage) and maybe revise your thoughts. Just because he has losses to wrestlers on his record doesn't mean that he's vulnerable to being held down on the floor for three rounds.

The last elite wrestler he fought was Sherk, and he really demonstrated excellent wrestling ability in that fight and actually out wrestled the wrestler. The fight was actually lost for Nick on the feet with boxing (oh how the tables have turned).

I hope the Koscheck fight gets booked, because it would finally put an end to all of these questions and general assumptions about how Nick handles powerhouse wrestlers.

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Old 10-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I hope the Koscheck fight gets booked too, that way one of them gets their ass kicked and we all win, and Nick may retire again at the end.

Nate's the one who should get flack for getting held down though.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:17 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The consensus isn't that he gets laid on by wrestlers but that he has never beat a wrestler. Going for solid takedowns combined with his stance and practically non-existent tdd makes him unable to mount a real offense. Even his method of walking people down makes it easier for them to take him down if they are so inclined. He can't get into his rhythm under that kind of attack.

It's just a bad match up for him.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:21 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by deadmanshand View Post
The consensus isn't that he gets laid on by wrestlers but that he has never beat a wrestler. Going for solid takedowns combined with his stance and practically non-existent tdd makes him unable to mount a real offense. Even his method of walking people down makes it easier for them to take him down if they are so inclined. He can't get into his rhythm under that kind of attack.

It's just a bad match up for him.
I've lost count of how many comments I've seen since the Diaz/Koscheck proposition stating that Koscheck is going to lie on top of Diaz for three rounds like he did to Daley.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
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The consensus isn't that he gets laid on by wrestlers but that he has never beat a wrestler. Going for solid takedowns combined with his stance and practically non-existent tdd makes him unable to mount a real offense. Even his method of walking people down makes it easier for them to take him down if they are so inclined. He can't get into his rhythm under that kind of attack.

It's just a bad match up for him.
Agreed. The only people that think he gets laid on by wrestlers are him and his camp. I can't recall any fight where he was ever LnP'ed. To be honest, I'd like to see someone like GSP or Kos try because I bet they get tapped.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Agreed. The only people that think he gets laid on by wrestlers are him and his camp. I can't recall any fight where he was ever LnP'ed. To be honest, I'd like to see someone like GSP or Kos try because I bet they get tapped.
Yeah right.

GSP would maul Diaz.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I've lost count of how many comments I've seen since the Diaz/Koscheck proposition stating that Koscheck is going to lie on top of Diaz for three rounds like he did to Daley.
That's more a comment about Kos than Diaz. He has a tendency to simply hold people down rather than try to finish them on the ground. Most have never seen any real activity from Diaz that makes them think he can't.

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Yeah right.

GSP would maul Diaz.
Absolutely agree. Diaz has nothing for GSP.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah right.

GSP would maul Diaz.
Pretty sure GSP wouldn't "maul" Diaz. Other than when Diaz was TKO'd as an 18/19 year old kid, he hasn't ever really been mauled by any one.

@deadman. Diaz hasn't show any activity to suggest he wouldn't just get held down for three rounds? You mean like, never actually being held down for three rounds before? Diaz is always active with submissions and sweeps and is a top notch scrambler.

Other than the Daley fight, Koscheck doesn't really have a tendency to just hold people down either, he's usually quite an exciting fighter.

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Old 10-30-2012, 04:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Agreed. The only people that think he gets laid on by wrestlers are him and his camp. I can't recall any fight where he was ever LnP'ed. To be honest, I'd like to see someone like GSP or Kos try because I bet they get tapped.
Lol, Nick's BJJ is so overrated it is hilarious. Which top level fighter has he submitted? Oh yeah... Best ground fighter he has ever submitted is Josh Neer...

He has ok sweeps and half decent submission attempts but isn't strong enough and doesn't have high enough level BJJ to submit the top ground fighters. That is why all of these types of fighters have beaten Diaz...

Koscheck would easily do the same. And I hope we see this fight just so people can loosen their grip on Diaz's nuts and realize the reason he has looked as good as he did in Srikeforce is because he was fighting mediocre opponents.

Diaz's only truly impressive win lately was over a past his prime unmotivated BJ Penn and Condit already showed us how overrated Diaz's striking is if his opponent doesn't fall into his games.
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Old 10-30-2012, 04:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Pretty sure GSP wouldn't "maul" Diaz. Other than when Diaz was TKO'd as an 18/19 year old kid, he hasn't ever really been mauled by any one.
GSP would maul him. Diaz has problems with people going for takedowns and people who use footwork to keep him from forcing them back against the cage. GSP is fantastic at both.

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@deadman. Diaz hasn't show any activity to suggest he wouldn't just get held down for three rounds? You mean like, never actually being held down for three rounds before? Diaz is always active with submissions and sweeps and is a top notch scrambler.
I said most. Not me. I laid out exactly why I think a solid wrestler beats him and it had nothing to do with him being held down.

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Other than the Daley fight, Koscheck doesn't really have a tendency to just hold people down either, he's usually quite an exciting fighter.
He's exciting when he headhunts. On the ground he is kind of boring.
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