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Old 11-03-2012, 07:08 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But..

205 Hendo > HW Fedor

185 Hendo < 185 Anderson

MMA math but 2 of those got finished quickly out of those 2 fights. And it wasn't Anderson.

(Huge Big Nog fan) But while Nog was Fedor's greatest wins ever, Anderson was prolly beating on Nog in sparring on the daily.
Yeah, well let`s see how many losses Jones has after a decade in the sport fighting the best. At this point in his career, Fedor looked just as unstoppable as Jones.

And no, Nog and Silva didn't train together back then. And if they did, Nog would have been subbing him left and right as back then Anderson had no BJJ. He lost to Chonan and Takase for christ's sake.

Context is everything. You can't just ignore timelines for convenience.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:40 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But..

205 Hendo > declining Fedor who was already on a two fight losing streak.

185 Hendo < 185 Anderson

MMA math but 2 of those got finished quickly out of those 2 fights. And it wasn't Anderson.

(Huge Big Nog fan) But while Nog was Fedor's greatest wins ever, Anderson was prolly beating on Nog in sparring on the daily.
fixed.
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Old 11-04-2012, 01:05 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But..

205 Hendo > HW Fedor

185 Hendo < 185 Anderson

MMA math but 2 of those got finished quickly out of those 2 fights. And it wasn't Anderson.

(Huge Big Nog fan) But while Nog was Fedor's greatest wins ever, Anderson was prolly beating on Nog in sparring on the daily.
I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But...

170 lb daiju takase > anderson

ikuhisa minowa > 185 lb takase.

MMA math but two of those got finished quickly, and it wasn't minowaman. Minowaman = Goat.

And before you remind me that andersons loss was early in his career, let me also remind you that fedor's loss was in the twilight of his career. It's like liddell losing to the likes of jardine.

Do we see now why MMA math from career lows doesn't work for goat discussions? You just give the MMA math disclaimer and then very nicely go ahead and still use that as your logic.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:15 AM   #74 (permalink)
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If it was his first Heavyweight fight Cigano would KO him for sure. A lot of Bones striking is so successful because of the Anderson Silva effect but with technically superior strikers like Dos Santos and Reem, not to mention Cain (with his own skill set). I personally can't wait for Bones to move up.

I just hope Anderson gets to whoop him first.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:22 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
Yeah, well let`s see how many losses Jones has after a decade in the sport fighting the best. At this point in his career, Fedor looked just as unstoppable as Jones.

And no, Nog and Silva didn't train together back then. And if they did, Nog would have been subbing him left and right as back then Anderson had no BJJ. He lost to Chonan and Takase for christ's sake.

Context is everything. You can't just ignore timelines for convenience.
Was more of an example. As if Nog was such a better striker then, than he is now. Anderson wasn't relevant when Nog and Fedor were at the top. Point was, Anderson probably owns Nog in any sort of sparring. And I highly doubt Nog sub's him all the time in training. Anderson is a BB under him...you don't think he can defend against him? Anderson probably holds his own on the mat. All while being 2 weight classes different.

Doesn't matter how good Anderson was then. The whole point of my post was Anderson > Fedor. All time best. Fedor's best win is a training partner of Anderson's. A guy who routinely gets owned striking against him in practice.

Fedor had a flawless record fighting in Pride. Everyone acts like Fedor was such a small guy. Yet the best HWs of his time were Nog at 240. CC at an even lighter weight. He never fought Barnett...Randleman went down to 205. Coleman went down to 205. Fedor was never as small as people like to think compared to the HWs back then.

But thats just my opinion. I'll fix what I said for ya. Fedor's best win was against a guy that for the last several years has probably been owned by middleweight Anderson Silva in sparring.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
I don't want to argue over this opinion.

But...

170 lb daiju takase > anderson

ikuhisa minowa > 185 lb takase.

MMA math but two of those got finished quickly, and it wasn't minowaman. Minowaman = Goat.

And before you remind me that andersons loss was early in his career, let me also remind you that fedor's loss was in the twilight of his career. It's like liddell losing to the likes of jardine.

Do we see now why MMA math from career lows doesn't work for goat discussions? You just give the MMA math disclaimer and then very nicely go ahead and still use that as your logic.
So you want to compare these fighters to Hendo.

I used a common quality opponent. You used irrelevant fighters.

Why even waste your time being goofy?

Who said MMA Math is the tell all? Because I used one RELEVANT example it means my whole basis for thinking ANderson is better all time is based around MMA math? You don't need to sit here and try to teach me the incorrect sciences of mma math like you know something that I don't.

Fedor was straight KO'd by 40 year old straight 206lb Hendo. Hendo was straight laced and tapped out by 185lb Anderson. Fedor lost several in a row when he came to teh States to fight legit HWs. Hell even a small 205er he couldn't get past. Fedor was great. But in my opinion not the best of all time. If Anderson went up to 205 to fight guys and started to get straight OWNED like Fedor did at the end of his career I'd say the same thing about Anderson.

Just my opinion. You can go teach someone else about the ins and outs of MMA math tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
fixed.
You mean declining? Or do you mean a man who actually started fighting real competition again after taking a couple years out to fight freak shows?

You mean Fedor at what? 35 was past his prime...but much smaller 40 Dan Henderson was a young stallion? Fedor got KNOCKED OUT by a smaller...older man. Much older. He was a decent sized favorite in that fight. Everyone picked Fedor because "well he isn't at a size disadvantage he was against Bigfoot".

Anderson is almost 38. When do you suppose he will start declining? The convenient thing to say would be as soon as he loses that must mean he is declining. When Fedor came to SF he was still unstoppable. When he started losing he was all of a sudden declining.

Last edited by jonnyg4508 : 11-04-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:38 AM   #77 (permalink)
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Oh well. JDS beats Fedor and Hendo.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:56 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
So you want to compare these fighters to Hendo.

I used a common quality opponent. You used irrelevant fighters.

Why even waste your time being goofy?

Who said MMA Math is the tell all? Because I used one RELEVANT example it means my whole basis for thinking ANderson is better all time is based around MMA math? You don't need to sit here and try to teach me the incorrect sciences of mma math like you know something that I don't.

Fedor was straight KO'd by 40 year old straight 206lb Hendo. Hendo was straight laced and tapped out by 185lb Anderson. Fedor lost several in a row when he came to teh States to fight legit HWs. Hell even a small 205er he couldn't get past. Fedor was great. But in my opinion not the best of all time. If Anderson went up to 205 to fight guys and started to get straight OWNED like Fedor did at the end of his career I'd say the same thing about Anderson.

Just my opinion. You can go teach someone else about the ins and outs of MMA math tho.



You mean declining? Or do you mean a man who actually started fighting real competition again after taking a couple years out to fight freak shows?

You mean Fedor at what? 35 was past his prime...but much smaller 40 Dan Henderson was a young stallion? Fedor got KNOCKED OUT by a smaller...older man. Much older. He was a decent sized favorite in that fight. Everyone picked Fedor because "well he isn't at a size disadvantage he was against Bigfoot".

Anderson is almost 38. When do you suppose he will start declining? The convenient thing to say would be as soon as he loses that must mean he is declining. When Fedor came to SF he was still unstoppable. When he started losing he was all of a sudden declining.
Oh so MMA math only works when you use QUALITY opponents, gotcha. So Chuck beat Vitor and Vitor KOd Franklin, so clearly Chuck would demolish Franklin ... all quality opponents there... waitaminute.

Yes Chuck lost to Franklin at the end of his career, but according to your logic tail ends of career don't matter, every fighter is the same at 80 as at 20. Good thing for the sake of this discussion you picked a fighter (Anderson) who hasn't hit his tail end yet, otherwise you really wouldn't make any sense. Give it a couple of years, everyone ages differently.

MMA math doesn't work. Period. You have to look at careers in total. I can accept if you compare legacies in their entirities and come out with Anderson on top, but that is still debatable.

IMO peak Arlovski (on a win streak), Sylvia, Big Nog with less miles on him, peak CroCop and near peak Coleman and Randelman are more than a match for the likes of Leites, Cote, 24-12 Sonnen, inconsistent Belfort, Lutter, Marquardt, Irvin, Bonnar etc.

Aside from Henderson and Franklin, Anderson's wins are not that impressive. Most of them are bums that aren't even in the UFC anymore, and many others (like Sonnen, Okami, Belfort etc.) are very inconsistent.

Compared to them, Fedor's opponents were unbeatable behemoths when he beat them .. Big Nog and CroCop ran through the world's elite HWs at the time. Coleman and Randelman were not far removed from winning the Pride GP and being the UFC HW champs, as were Timmy and Arlovski.

Oh and Fedor got knocked out by on older man WITH A 20 YEAR OLD'S HORMONES. Let's not pretend like Hendo is your average 40 year old any more than a steroid pumped racehorse is a circus pony. Unlike Hendo, Fedor aged naturally and so his career has to be looked at during it's peak.

Just my opinion. You should be the one teaching everyone about MMA math since you seem so attuned to it's rules of application and nuances.
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:18 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Yea, a common quality opponent is more relevant than fluke flying submissions in the very early stages of Anderson's career. Before he was widely known. Before he was considered great. Yea, I would say the Hendo example is a TAD more relevant. Both fighting Hendo within the last 5 years. Not fights from '04 and '03. I mean call me CRAZY, but I would think a Dan Henderson example is just a little more relevant.

Your post would be all great and stuff if my whole argument was based off 1 example of MMA Math.

This place is sort of funny like that. You use one example...and people call you a newb, and idiot, for using MMA Math. It is like a badge of honor to be the guy who posts 'MMA MATH Doesn't work!"

So you can continue to freak out over 1 small example and entertain me with irrelevant fights from almost 10 years ago and act like they had the same significance as an Anderson title fight or a Fedor/Hendo main event.

I apologize for posting any semblance of MMA Math.

Take the Hendo fights TOTALLY out of the conversation. I still think Anderson is better than Fedor all time. So what are you mad at?
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #80 (permalink)
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Fedor never fought anybody. And when he finally stepped up in competition, he got beat down.
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