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Old 11-17-2012, 12:21 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RedRocket44 View Post
This is probably one of the few times I'll agree with LyotoLeigon, and you never really addressed his point.

Silva has fought at 205 and done just fine, GSP has never fought above 170, and is quite a bit smaller than Silva.

If Anderson has nothing left to prove then why does he want to fight GSP so bad? A lot of "p4p" lists actually have GSP at #3, behind Silva and JBJ. JBJ would be the more challenging fight, and it infuriates me to see the supposed #1 fighter duck away from his biggest challenge yet.

I also really don't get what you mean that Silva has nothing left to prove at his age. Silva/Dana are the ones claiming this is the #1/#2 p4p fighter, or the "two best" fighters, yet again, most reputable lists have GSP at #3. Silva can prove he is the absolute best with a win over JBJ. I really don't think he proves that with a win against GSP.

I somewhat agree with you when you say Silva hasn't faced top quality opponents, but he has a top quality opponent available, at a weight class he's tested the waters in, and would rather take on someone lower ranked, and smaller.

But I agree with you 100%. Dana is a promoter, and says a lot of things and then changes his opinion a day later (just go back and look for a video on his stance on women in the UFC).

There is a reason Dana said this one night before the GSP / Condit fight (before GSP/Silva have formally agreed to anything). I'm thinking to probably light a fire in Condit (piss him off a little - make him feel he's being overlooked). There's also a reason why Dana is saying Silva will be watching cageside. You better believe Dana wants Silva to enter the cage and challenge GSP in front of his hometown fans. Dana knows there is a better chance of a GSP/Silva superfight, than a Silva/JBJ superfight, so he's going to do whatever it takes to sell 60,000 tickets at a stadium show. He doesn't care if its the "best" superfight or not - he knows either fight would sell out a stadium.



You're line of thinking is based too much on street bravado and not nearly enough on what makes financial sense. Going down in weight to get a bigger purse has been happening for decades in boxing (hell, a good number of pacquiao's opponents have gone down in weight just for the paycheck). GSP sells the most PPVs and gets about 5 million a fight and imo silva would be crazy not to bank on that fight first.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:23 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by evzbc
I'm sticking to the first things I said.... it's supply and demand.

GSP has WAY more fans than JBJ. And while you and I both know that Jonathan vs Anderson is the fight that SHOULD happen, GSP vs Anderson will sell more. And let's be realistic, it's still a SICK fight.
Well at least we can agree that Silva / Jones is the fight that should happen.

Silva/GSP will sell more, and if it's done in Toronto, Dana can get away with ridiculous ticket prices as well. If you look at the official numbers from the Rogers Centre show, the total gate was 12,075,000 USD with an attendance of 55,724 (average price of 216.69 USD).

A Silva/JBJ fight would likely take place in Brazil, and looking at Silva/Sonnen 2 numbers, the average ticket price was around 150-155 USD.

The obvious money is also in the PPV buy rates. Events with GSP are typically close to 1 million buys, with Silva and Jones around 400 or 500 thousand.

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Originally Posted by evzbc
Jons is also tied up with Chael Sonnen. So if you feel strongly that Anderson shouldn't fight GSP, I wonder how you feel about Sonnen vs Bones...
Don't even get me going - that fight shouldn't even count towards Bones win record / title defenses. I might as well get in the cage with him...
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Laughing my ass off if Condit wins...
It would be ironic and sort of funny.

But I am afraid of this, because any GSP fan will use the knee as an excuse. Or say well he had pressure of looking ahead to Anderson...pressure that he shouldn't of had to deal with.

Same reason I am afraid of the Anderson fight. Anderson will dog him, but there are built in excuses of he isn't as big. Which no doubt would be said should Anderson win. Even if Anderson KO's him with a knee on his first shot in. People would still somehow correlate it with the size difference.

It is a lose/lose for Condit and Anderson in those fights.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:52 PM   #54 (permalink)
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You're generalizing. If Condit wins, then he wins. Plain and simple. We'd be foolish to ignore factors such as ring rust if they're blatantly apparent, but I expect ring rust to be a non-issue. If Carlos wins, it's more likely to be because he's a damn good fighter in his own right.

As for the size difference between GSP and Silva, turnabout is fair play. One of GSP's most dominant performances came against BJ Penn, and to this day, many people claim, 'Well, he only beat up on a lightweight'. That road, much as I dislike it, goes both ways. But again, that would be a factor I'd completely ignore unless it were blatantly obvious. There's a difference between Anderson KOing GSP in ten seconds and outmuscling him (and let's be honest... if he can hold off much bigger men like Chael and Bonnar, he can probably do it to GSP).

I don't see this as being too big a deal regardless. If Silva stomps GSP, most fans will see it as his being the better fighter. You're associating a handful of GSP fans with the lot of us, and to be fair... every fan base has its 'go to' excuses and defence mechanisms. Let us not pretend that this isn't especially true of Silva fans.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:10 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I was generalizing. I should have said many of his fans.

GSP is the most calculated guy in the sport. He says and thinks his knee is 100%. So if he gets in the cage tonight, he is ready.

Most all fighters and trainers don't believe in ring rust. So not sure how people can use it. Condit hasn't fought since February? Not as long as GSP...but what about his ring rust?

I don;t hear a lot of people say "oh Penn was small". GSP gets tons of credit for that win. I use that fight as an example when people say Anderson is picking on a smaller...because between Sherk, Serra, and Penn GSP has made a name off smaller fighters. Maybe I haven't talked to the right people, but people gave him a lot of credit for dominating Penn after Penn beat him up in the first fight.

What exactly would he out muscle him by? May come into play on defending TDs. But Anderson isn't going to Couture him against the cage or look to take him down and hold him. If GSP fans want to get all giddy over him taking one of the best wrestlers in all of MMA...who competes at 205 down in practice...then what is the problem?

I'm associating the 10-20 posters here that already are crying about size. And then the ones that think GSP will win now...but will then join that group when GSP loses. There is a big % who thinks it is very fair. But also a good % that doesn't. No doubt in my mind...because there has already been so many threads on it...that after the fight there would be thread after thread complaining about the size and then telling us Anderson is a chicken and why doesn't he go fight Bones. Which he might do eventually. Can't fight GSP, Weidman, and Bones all at the same time..
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheNinja View Post
Book it... Mr. Bandwagon Legion himself will jump right on the GSP wagon right after he beats Condit....

He will most likely put up a new avatar of GSP and start talking about how he has been a lifelong fan... LMAO....
If I was a band wagon fan who rooted for people based on wins and losses wouldn't I be rooting for Anderson instead of hating on him?

Not the brightest bunch on the forum.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Most all fighters and trainers don't believe in ring rust.
I have never spoken to a single fighter or trainer in my nearly 23 years of training who did not believe in ring rust because it's a very real thing. There are entire training regimens based around eliminating ring rust. Trainers and fighters give seminars on how to mitigate it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:22 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by evzbc View Post
I'm sticking to the first things I said.... it's supply and demand.

GSP has WAY more fans than JBJ. And while you and I both know that Jonathan vs Anderson is the fight that SHOULD happen, GSP vs Anderson will sell more. And let's be realistic, it's still a SICK fight.

Jons is also tied up with Chael Sonnen. So if you feel strongly that Anderson shouldn't fight GSP, I wonder how you feel about Sonnen vs Bones...
I am not really interested outside of seeing Sonnen get wrecked.....

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Originally Posted by RedRocket44 View Post

The obvious money is also in the PPV buy rates. Events with GSP are typically close to 1 million buys, with Silva and Jones around 400 or 500 thousand.
I actually believe the 2 together pitted against 1 another could rival or maybe even surpass that number. In all honesty, we do not really know which pairing would generate the most sales/ppv buys but I believe Jones/Silva might actually do better.....

Last edited by fightfan76 : 11-17-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:40 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by deadmanshand View Post
I have never spoken to a single fighter or trainer in my nearly 23 years of training who did not believe in ring rust because it's a very real thing. There are entire training regimens based around eliminating ring rust. Trainers and fighters give seminars on how to mitigate it.
Perhaps fighters are just trying to stay confident. But each time I see a fighter interviewed and asked about it, they either have said it isn't real or it is hardly a factor.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Perhaps fighters are just trying to stay confident. But each time I see a fighter interviewed and asked about it, they either have said it isn't real or it is hardly a factor.
They are trying to stay confident. Ask anyone who's ever fought. If you haven't fought in a while there is definitely rust. It's the same with any other skill. If you don't use it you get worse at it.
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