Hugely over emphasising top control and why it's become the norm in MMA - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #11 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 07:49 PM
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Not really, Anthony got nothing accomplished in that fight at all.

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post #12 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 07:53 PM
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This thread has been done a million times.

Lets go back to the basics - the unified rules of MMA have the following criteria;

1. Effective striking - sub-catergories are first a heavy importance om the quality of strkes, followed by number of strikes, as well as taking into account visible damage (eg, cuts, brusing, as well as stunning & "rocking" or knocking down an opponent)
2. Effective grappling - takedowns, passes, submission attempts, reverals, etc
3. Effective agression - moving forward, or attacking with submission from the guard
4. cage/ring control (UFC calls this octagon control)

out of those criteria, the only criteria that GSP didn't win in every round was arguably criteria #1, in round #3. "Effective agression" does not take into account stikes from the bottom, only submissions. The only catergory that scores points for strikes from the bottom is "effective striking". The strikes that Condit was throwing from the bottom weren't significant/power strikes. GSP landed the better quality strikes in each round, which is what the judges want to see. Condit landed more stikes overall, but the quality of strikes were better from GSP. The other 3 criteria GSP won easily in each round - giving the overall round to GSP.

How did you have 2 rounds for Condit anyways? I believe one of the judges gave Condit the 3rd round - I have no idea how anyone could give any other rounds to Condit.

The reason GSP won, is because he won in every criteria except arguably "effective striking" in a few of the rounds. Without a doubt he was the agressor, had better effective grappling, and better octagon control.

Make sense?

Last edited by RedRocket44; 11-18-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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post #13 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 07:59 PM
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Gsp likes dudes, which shows in his "fights". Hes not tryin to hurt his opponents, he's tryin to "get it in".. its all good tho, he won. Don't neg rep me. this forum doesn't let ppl express themselves. Let me live. #blackmanrising
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post #14 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 07:59 PM
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Top Control might be a little bit overrated BUT not in the Condit/GSP fight. From bottom you dont create nearly as much power as you do from the top. So sure Condit was active but GSP wasnt exactly stalling either. I thought GSP did more damage from the top then Condit did from the bottom. And that picture proves absolutely nothing because GSP got hit in the face standing up also. Just 1 punch to the nose could have created that whole bruise. And the rest does not even look that bad.

You know what i think is more overrated then top control??? Looking at a guys face post fight to indicate how much damage he took.
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post #15 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
And I actually thought Condit did a fantastic job of controlling GSP's posture throughout the majority of the fight from the bottom position.
That is not what octagon control is.

Octagon control is defined as "dictating the pace, place and position of the fight." That criteria would have easily been given to GSP in every round.

Believe it or not, no points are given at all, in any criteria for defense, other than grappling for reverals/sweeps. It is primarly only a method of not losing, not a means of scoring points.

eg. a submission that nearly finishes an opponent scores more points than multiple trivial/weak submission attempts, however no points are scored for defending submissions.

Same idea with striking, and takedowns.

It's all about implementing your gameplan on the other opponent -- being the agressor, with more points awared for quality over quantity.

Again - nobody goes into a fight with the plan to land strikes from the bottom, submit from the bottom, or ending the fight with an upkick. If you do, lucky you -- you get the finish and possibly a KO/sub of the night bonus. But you can't honestly say that was what your plan was going into the fight. You can prepare for those situations, but you don't go into the fight planning to win that way. The only exception may be very skilled BJJ fighters who like to pull guard and try for triangles / armbars etc. The rules don't exactly favour that style, but a takedown is awarded for pulling guard.

This is one of the reasons why you hear people say that wrestling is one of the best base skills for MMA. You score points for grappling (takedowns), control (dictating the pace/place), and you are going to be landing strikes or attempting submissions once on the ground.

Last edited by RedRocket44; 11-18-2012 at 08:12 PM.
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post #16 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:15 PM
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I agree with what most have said here. (RedRocket, roflcopter, etc.) I also agree with CanadianPsycho that most (if not all) of the damage on GSP's face would have been from that head kick + flurry immediately after.
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post #17 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodenhead View Post
I agree with what most have said here. (RedRocket, roflcopter, etc.) I also agree with CanadianPsycho that most (if not all) of the damage on GSP's face would have been from that head kick + flurry immediately after.
Did u agree with what I said? #truth
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post #18 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackManRising View Post
Did u agree with what I said? #truth
Did you just use a hashtag??

Wow... instant loss off all respect.
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post #19 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:23 PM
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I used a hashtag and u lost all respect for me? Sweet pre judging.
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post #20 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackManRising View Post
I used a hashtag and u lost all respect for me? Sweet pre judging.
Yeah it really does not take alot to lose respect for some online.

I thought people who used hashtags on facebook are dumb. Using it on forums.... i think this is the first time iv seen that.
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