Hugely over emphasising top control and why it's become the norm in MMA - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 09:41 PM
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The thing is -- it wasn't only top control that won the fight for GSP like in the OP. Control is one of the less important criteria, but still scores points.

However to get top control you have to get takedowns, which GSP scored at least one in each round (7 total), which count towards effective grappling... which is an important criteria. Sort of a little domino effect -- to get (top) control, you need a takedown, which gets you points in a number of areas.

He also scored a lot of passes once he got the fight to the ground, which further helped his grappling and control. Finally, he landed more significant strikes throughout the fight as well.

I think I've beat this to death tonight - time to call it quits.
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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 10:01 PM
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I just watched the fight again to make sure I remember it correctly. I was (somewhat ) intoxicated last night.

I was correct in my assessment though. Condit had next to nothing for GSP in that fight. It was a hell of a fight, and Condit is a ******* warrior, but GSP had him beat everywhere.

Condit had a good combo or two, and a good head kick. He had some good sub attempts but GSP was clearly never in trouble. With the exception of the one head kick, GSP landed harder, cleaner, and more overall strikes. Condits strikes from the bottom inflicted damage in the sense that they cut GSP... but if you think any of those strikes were harder than GSP's elbows / punches from on top I question if you have ever been in that position. The strikes from bottom can cut. Do they hurt as bad as from top? Hardly. Which is exactly why it isn't scored as much.

I don't have the time to explain why strikes from the bottom isn't as effective as strikes from in someones guard... or half guard. I didn't think something like that needed to be explained to people who have so many posts.

RIP Jordan Corder. Watch over me from above brother.

http://youtu.be/d5cUuRoQmMQ
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
I don't have the time to explain why strikes from the bottom isn't as effective as strikes from in someones guard... or half guard. I didn't think something like that needed to be explained to people who have so many posts.
Pretty simple really -- there's no power/weight behind them when you have somebody's bodyweight ontop of you -- pushing you into the mat. They are more of arm punches than anything of significance.

They can cut/bruise, just like any other strike though... you're simply tearing the skin when the glove rides along the face. No damage behind them though.
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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-18-2012, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post

And I actually thought Condit did a fantastic job of controlling GSP's posture throughout the majority of the fight from the bottom position.
You need to check out the Gracie breakdown of the fight (there's a recent thread on it,) and listen to Condit himself at the post fight presser.

Condit wasn't controlling GSPs posture, GSP was doing exactly what he should have been doing in order to counter a good JJ practitioner from attempting submissions ffrom his back, while 'bringing the rain' down on Condit.

I was concerned, and stated so in another thread, that GSP wasn't passing any more than into half guard, then I watched the Gracie breakdown and heard Condit explain why he was having problems with GSP in guard, and it became pretty clear who was controlling whom.
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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 01:11 AM
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Last edited by RearNaked; 11-19-2012 at 01:16 AM.
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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 03:07 AM
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What is the point of this? It looks like a bad attempt to take things out of context and show 3 seconds a fight while ignoring everything that happened before and after it.

Ironically, you can see Condits face pouring with blood from DAMAGE done by GSP.

RIP Jordan Corder. Watch over me from above brother.

http://youtu.be/d5cUuRoQmMQ
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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 03:43 AM
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It is what is it and positions count although they shouldn't. Fact is GSP and a lot of other guys who rely on top control would probably fight very differently if the rules were changed and control didn't matter. In my opinion these rules we have right now are biased to the point where a certain skillset is made almost useless whereas another skillset is absolutely overpowered. That's just not the way it should be. The game is rigged.




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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 04:24 AM
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Superficial damage is not a reliable proxy for "real" damage. Some people cut more easily (scar tissue), and some people bleed more profusely and bruise more readily (genetics I believe).

Besides, it's a sport, not a gladiator ring.
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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
GSP's face was marked up. Condit's was a mask of blood. I'm working on some gifs. Will post later tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
What is the point of this? It looks like a bad attempt to take things out of context and show 3 seconds a fight while ignoring everything that happened before and after it.

Ironically, you can see Condits face pouring with blood from DAMAGE done by GSP.
*Sigh

Last edited by RearNaked; 11-19-2012 at 04:29 AM.
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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
*Sigh
That's cute you sigh online.

You still didn't explain the point of your GIF. GSP wasn't scoring in the judges eyes based on that three second GIF. That was also a fraction of the fight, and in itself had absolutely nothing to do with how the fight was scored.

I am seriously wondering if we are just being trolled at this point.

RIP Jordan Corder. Watch over me from above brother.

http://youtu.be/d5cUuRoQmMQ
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