Hugely over emphasising top control and why it's become the norm in MMA - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

Reply

Old 11-18-2012, 09:41 PM   #31 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 561
RedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level now
The thing is -- it wasn't only top control that won the fight for GSP like in the OP. Control is one of the less important criteria, but still scores points.

However to get top control you have to get takedowns, which GSP scored at least one in each round (7 total), which count towards effective grappling... which is an important criteria. Sort of a little domino effect -- to get (top) control, you need a takedown, which gets you points in a number of areas.

He also scored a lot of passes once he got the fight to the ground, which further helped his grappling and control. Finally, he landed more significant strikes throughout the fight as well.

I think I've beat this to death tonight - time to call it quits.
RedRocket44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 11-18-2012, 10:01 PM   #32 (permalink)
American Fighter
 
PheelGoodInc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Eastvale, Ca
Posts: 3,819
PheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings System
I just watched the fight again to make sure I remember it correctly. I was (somewhat ) intoxicated last night.

I was correct in my assessment though. Condit had next to nothing for GSP in that fight. It was a hell of a fight, and Condit is a ******* warrior, but GSP had him beat everywhere.

Condit had a good combo or two, and a good head kick. He had some good sub attempts but GSP was clearly never in trouble. With the exception of the one head kick, GSP landed harder, cleaner, and more overall strikes. Condits strikes from the bottom inflicted damage in the sense that they cut GSP... but if you think any of those strikes were harder than GSP's elbows / punches from on top I question if you have ever been in that position. The strikes from bottom can cut. Do they hurt as bad as from top? Hardly. Which is exactly why it isn't scored as much.

I don't have the time to explain why strikes from the bottom isn't as effective as strikes from in someones guard... or half guard. I didn't think something like that needed to be explained to people who have so many posts.
__________________


Team PheelGood Fantasy Fight League

Jon Jones / Mark Hunt / Cub Swanson / Dustin Poirier / Darrell Montague
PheelGoodInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 10:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 561
RedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level nowRedRocket44 is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
I don't have the time to explain why strikes from the bottom isn't as effective as strikes from in someones guard... or half guard. I didn't think something like that needed to be explained to people who have so many posts.
Pretty simple really -- there's no power/weight behind them when you have somebody's bodyweight ontop of you -- pushing you into the mat. They are more of arm punches than anything of significance.

They can cut/bruise, just like any other strike though... you're simply tearing the skin when the glove rides along the face. No damage behind them though.
RedRocket44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2012, 11:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
Flyweight
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 312
NoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to beholdNoYards is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post

And I actually thought Condit did a fantastic job of controlling GSP's posture throughout the majority of the fight from the bottom position.
You need to check out the Gracie breakdown of the fight (there's a recent thread on it,) and listen to Condit himself at the post fight presser.

Condit wasn't controlling GSPs posture, GSP was doing exactly what he should have been doing in order to counter a good JJ practitioner from attempting submissions ffrom his back, while 'bringing the rain' down on Condit.

I was concerned, and stated so in another thread, that GSP wasn't passing any more than into half guard, then I watched the Gracie breakdown and heard Condit explain why he was having problems with GSP in guard, and it became pretty clear who was controlling whom.
NoYards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:11 AM   #35 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
RearNaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Swinging from Roy Nelson's nuts.
Posts: 848
RearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A Baller

Last edited by RearNaked : 11-19-2012 at 01:16 AM.
RearNaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:07 AM   #36 (permalink)
American Fighter
 
PheelGoodInc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Eastvale, Ca
Posts: 3,819
PheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
What is the point of this? It looks like a bad attempt to take things out of context and show 3 seconds a fight while ignoring everything that happened before and after it.

Ironically, you can see Condits face pouring with blood from DAMAGE done by GSP.
__________________


Team PheelGood Fantasy Fight League

Jon Jones / Mark Hunt / Cub Swanson / Dustin Poirier / Darrell Montague
PheelGoodInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:43 AM   #37 (permalink)
It's Hammer Time!
 
Hammerlock2.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 8,317
Hammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings SystemHammerlock2.0 Is Beyond A Rankings System
It is what is it and positions count although they shouldn't. Fact is GSP and a lot of other guys who rely on top control would probably fight very differently if the rules were changed and control didn't matter. In my opinion these rules we have right now are biased to the point where a certain skillset is made almost useless whereas another skillset is absolutely overpowered. That's just not the way it should be. The game is rigged.
Hammerlock2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
Flyweight
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 281
Atras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to allAtras is a name known to all
Superficial damage is not a reliable proxy for "real" damage. Some people cut more easily (scar tissue), and some people bleed more profusely and bruise more readily (genetics I believe).

Besides, it's a sport, not a gladiator ring.
Atras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:25 AM   #39 (permalink)
Bantamweight
 
RearNaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Swinging from Roy Nelson's nuts.
Posts: 848
RearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A BallerRearNaked Is A Baller
Quote:
Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
GSP's face was marked up. Condit's was a mask of blood. I'm working on some gifs. Will post later tonight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PheelGoodInc View Post
What is the point of this? It looks like a bad attempt to take things out of context and show 3 seconds a fight while ignoring everything that happened before and after it.

Ironically, you can see Condits face pouring with blood from DAMAGE done by GSP.
*Sigh

Last edited by RearNaked : 11-19-2012 at 04:29 AM.
RearNaked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 06:57 AM   #40 (permalink)
American Fighter
 
PheelGoodInc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Eastvale, Ca
Posts: 3,819
PheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings SystemPheelGoodInc Is Beyond A Rankings System
Quote:
Originally Posted by RearNaked View Post
*Sigh
That's cute you sigh online.

You still didn't explain the point of your GIF. GSP wasn't scoring in the judges eyes based on that three second GIF. That was also a fraction of the fight, and in itself had absolutely nothing to do with how the fight was scored.

I am seriously wondering if we are just being trolled at this point.
__________________


Team PheelGood Fantasy Fight League

Jon Jones / Mark Hunt / Cub Swanson / Dustin Poirier / Darrell Montague
PheelGoodInc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios