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who has had a worse end to their career?

  • Penn

    Votes: 13 18.3%
  • Liddell

    Votes: 35 49.3%
  • Cro Cop

    Votes: 10 14.1%
  • You're A Douche

    Votes: 13 18.3%

Who Has Had A More Humiliating End To Their Career: Liddell Or Penn?

4K views 35 replies 25 participants last post by  hatedcellphones 
#1 ·
i'd say BJ by a slight margin. he consistently gets his fans hopes up by saying he has the fire back and is in the best shape of his career and then just became a punching bag for other fighters, its pathetic :(
 
#2 ·
It's pretty hard to say actually...when I first entered this topic I was going to say Liddell by a long shot, but looking at his record Liddell called it quits at a good time. Lost to Rashad, lost to Shogun, then lost to Franklin all by KO.

Thing about Penn is that he's not done, he just trains like shit and fights at WW instead of LW. The dude is small, and has low muscle mass; the fact that he fights the way he does is reason enough to believe in the guy. It's just sad to see the guy refuse to re-invent himself, he really could be one of the best again, but he just doesn't care anymore. If he really wanted to prove something he would get a ripped, athletic body, and train at a respectable camp with people who will push him and try to break him.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Actually I think it's pretty obvious the reason he fights at WW is because that way he has a built in excuse when he loses.

Everyone wants him to go to LW, but when he loses at LW, what excuse does he use? It's funny how everyone seems to have forgotten he LOST his last two fights at LW, and yet we are supposed to believe he could just saunter back there and rule the division? Time to give up that fantasy guys.

Having said that, Liddell still has a worse ending, getting KO'd like 4 times in row or something.
 
#4 ·
Some of those faces BJ made during the fight....well lets just say the white pants were an unfortunate choice.

I would hate for my last memories of Bj Penn begging Mr. Macdonald to stop hurting him while the look of terror is in his eyes.

Then again I would hate to see BJ act like a douche with his win.

Anyways the answer is

a.) Keith Jardine
b.) Tim Sylvia
c.) Jens Pulver
d.) Quinton Jackson (in progress)
 
#8 ·
Neither was really humiliating but Penn was much harder to watch. Chuck was competitive then would get bc caught and finished. Penn has been demolished in one sided fights where he looked helpless. The second Edgar fight the end of Fitch most of Diaz and all of Rory.

I'm not a Penn fan at all but as much as I loved it when Rory was Ali shuffling and dropping hands like Roy Jones I still felt a little bad deep down.

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#9 ·
BJ is just being annoying...

Why does he insist in fighting at WW?? All he does is bring some pressure for the first half of the first round, and then ends up getting battered for the rest of the fight.

I thought it was hard to watch against Nick, but last night was worse IMO. He's got great heart and doesn't give up, but he is still getting his ass kicked.

However, we all know that even if he doesn't get the LW belt back (which he could perhaps), at least he would be very competitive...

Unless he knows that the same thing would happen to him at LW, but without the excuse of losing to bigger guys...

I don't know...I'm puzzled by BJ's refusal to fight at his natural weight class...
 
#12 · (Edited)
My guess (and based on the advice of his corner throughout the fight) is they were hoping BJ would just get in a scrap, and land a lucky bomb or haymaker.

I may be going out on a limb here, but I don't think he wants to cut weight anymore. People have always questioned his desire, his dedication to training, etc -- and personally I don't think he wants to cut weight anymore.

Rory is young, and cuts to 170 from about 200 (bigger than GSP), and he probably doesn't break much of a sweat doing it. BJ came in 2 pounds under the limit at 168, I doubt he even cut any weight. He just came in "as is" so to speak. So I think for BJ, it's a choice of cut from ~170 to 155, or just take fights at WW, and I think BJ, being his bone-headed self is just taking fights against larger opponents.

Or maybe I'm wrong - maybe he wanted to fight the guy who everyone is calling the 2nd coming of GSP at welterweight? Maybe he thought if he beat Rory he would have some sort of revenge on TriStar gym. I have no idea - all I know is he got his ass kicked again, and he should probably retire.
 
#11 ·
They say a picture's worth a thousand words....



Seriously, Chuck couldn't even beat Jardine.
 
#13 ·
Penn's corner was god awful.

"You're the best BJ come on champ get out there you're the best beat him"

Same as Cesar Gracie no real advice just go out and hit him. No technical advice. Which is why Condit could do the same thing the whole fight against nick and Henderson could do the same thing all fight to nate.

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#15 · (Edited)
to answer the OP;

is Penn even officially retired? Liddell held on for way too long, but at least I know he's not coming back. BJ will be back for another payday in 2013, I can almost guarantee it. He's only 33, what's he going to do with his time if he's not fighting? Run a gym? His purse was 150k for the ass kicking he took against Diaz (not to mention sponsorships, etc) -- he's still making more money than A LOT of fighters.

If he actually made an effort to cut down to 155 he might actually have a chance at winning. Taking these fights against larger WW opponents is just asking for trouble, but it's an easy payday, as long as hes ready for a beating.
 
#17 ·
I think its amazing anyone calls either humiliating. Nobody in the forum will have a career like either guy and I think talking about either is in bad taste. Bunch of arm chair fighters indeed. Chuck got Koed swingin. BJ needed to drop weight. Neither ever had bad fights per say and both always fought top competition. It is what it is. But I would never say either ended in humiliation. Tim Sylvia if anyone. Chuck and BJ never let themselves go to to a ridiculous weight or left the UFC to get destroyed.
 
#18 ·
With all due respect, I think you're a little confused about what the point of a forum is. It exists for people to talk online about MMA stuff. I don't think anybody is saying, "I could do better!" when they talk about BJ or Chuck's career. It's an online forum created for the purpose of talking about MMA, so we're.....talking about MMA.

It shouldn't have to be stated every post you make that you are talking about the fighters, in comparison to other professional fighters, not the people on the forum, I think we can take that for granted.
 
#21 ·
Liddell by far... B.J. is fighting some big guys these days...

He truley is challenging himself win, lose, or draw....
 
#22 · (Edited)
That's a load of crap. He has plenty of challenges today at LW. BJ would be lucky to be in the top 10 at LW, with today's LW fighters if you ask me. He doesn't need to be a bonehead and fight guys 30 pounds bigger than him at WW. He could fight guys his size and be challenged. It's almost as if it's a fallback excuse for him, his camp and his fans.

Him taking fights at WW is some combination of laziness (not cutting weight) and stupidity if you ask me.

As for the original question, I say Liddell, only because he took some nasty KOs, and he is actually retired. I'm not convinced that BJ is done yet. He's only 33, what's he going to do with all his spare time? He made 150k against Diaz, he is still getting paid good money. There's no way he walks away from the sport at 33 years old, when he still gets paid more than many UFC guys can only dream of getting. He will be back, the only question is will he continue to be a punching bag?

He could come back for 1-2 fights, even 3 or more, and retire in a lot worse shape than Liddell did. He's already 1-4-1 in his last 6, with the draw being questionable at best. Should be 1-5 in his last 6...
 
#24 ·
In my opinion, and he's my favorite fighter of all time, Penn had the more humiliating ending. Liddell just got old and had a war of a career. By the end you could just tell his body wasn't able to do what his mind wanted it to. While it's in a way sad I don't think there's really a loss of dignity. Sure, I'd have rather seen Liddell walk away while he was ahead and not get pounded on but some people have to touch the oven to know it's hot.

Penn on the other hand has been brutal to watch. He wasn't training right. His head was obviously not in the game. He was fighting one (and quite possibly two) weight classes above where he should be. He didn't seem to respect how far the sport has grown in the last 5 years and how much better the competition is getting. Several times in his last few fights you could see him quit in the ring. To me that's far more humiliating and harder to stomach as a Penn fan. He'll always be my favorite, and maybe that makes my opinion jaded, but there it is.
 
#25 ·
This thread needs a title change

It says "Who had a more humiliating end to their career". As far as I know, BJs career has not ended. If someone says "it will end", it is only an assumption. BJ still has a lot in front of him and doesnt fall into the same category as Chuck.

Having said that, BJ need to move to his natural weight class. As already pointed out by several folks here, there are plenty of challenges for him at LW. At this time, even at LW, he would not be a top 5. There are several folks there who can beat him easily. He has to go down, concentrate on his cardio, get in shape, rededicate himself. If he is lazy enough not to do that, it is better he take up commentary or something and retire. I dont want to see him coach an young fighter and infuse him with his laziness.
 
#28 ·
For sure not BJ.. cro cop didnt have so many loses late because of wins against nobodies.. A fight against Al Turk is worse than losing against Nick Diaz or Rashad Evans in my opinion.. Also cro cop's fight against Mir was sooo pathetic, almost made me sick. Liddel on the other side had TOO many KOs..But none was against low competition. I say Cro Cop by far
 
#30 ·
I had a harder time watching Liddell but that is only because I enjoyed Penn getting dismantled. I used to like Penn but he's gotten so lazy and been fighting guys I like more. If Penn had stayed at 155 and stayed in shape and now quit overtime it got hard I would have had a harder time but I hate laziness. So I enjoyed Penn's fall.

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#36 ·
I think how Chuck went out was better than Penn. At least his in his last fight. He was looking really good against Franklin until he got knocked out. He just doesn't have a chin at all anymore, and that's something he can't really help. Penn on the other hand just keeps getting beat up for whole fights which, in my opinion, is a lot harder to watch.
 
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