5 of 8 Champs Are Wrestlers, Is It The Dominant Fighting Style? - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #21 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 02:43 PM
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Johnson and Cruz are not wrestlers nor is GSP.

Jones isn't really a wrestler either.

Benson is the only dedicated wrestler of the 5. The rest are just well rounded guys who have the ability to wrestle in MMA.

Cruz and Johnson especially spend 80 percent of their fight time striking.


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Hendo is a greco-roman wrestler, it isn't as effective in MMA for takedowns as freestyle is.
FOLKstyle....

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post #22 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 02:46 PM
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pretty sure Johnson wrestled in high school.


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post #23 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 02:52 PM
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Wrestling in high school is not a serious athletic base.

High school wrestling is extremely low level, shitloads of guys wrestled in HS. Some of them are the sort of guys that get taken down repeatedly in every fight and just like to throw hays.

Which is why Mighty Mouse gets outwrestled so much by other non-collegiate wrestlers. His wrestling is just good.....nothing special.

His game really is more kickboxing anyway.


If you are just going on what they trained in first, then Benson is technically a TKD fighter...but of course that's not accurate because it's inane....much like calling guys like Cruz and Johnson...guys who started MMA as kids, "wrestlers".

Phil Davis is a wrestler. He started MMA when he was a grown man and was about 24/25.

Chris Weidman is a wrestler.


GSP, Cruz, Johnson, and arguably Jones are not.

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post #24 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:05 PM
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If you are just going on what they trained in first, then Benson is technically a TKD fighter..
yeah, that was kinda what I was getting at. Their base discipline.. Like GSP is a karate fighter, but he hardly shows that anymore.

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FOLKstyle....
oops, yeah... sorry about that. In my mind folk- and freestyle are kinda the same thing, which they obviously are not. Still more similar than greco-roman.


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post #25 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:11 PM
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sorry, double post.


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post #26 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:25 PM
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Base is not very relevant.

It's the most overrated and overestimated aspect of MMA development.

What's relevant is what a fighter's focus is and aptitude for something in between the ages of about 16-24, on average.

No one would call Jose Aldo Jr a BJJ fighter although he didn't start training striking until he started fighting.


Junior Dos Santos was basically a wrestler until he started honing in his boxing skills with Luis Dorea.

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post #27 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Roflcopter View Post
Base is not very relevant.

It's the most overrated and overestimated aspect of MMA development.

What's relevant is what a fighter's focus is and aptitude for something in between the ages of about 16-24, on average.

No one would call Jose Aldo Jr a BJJ fighter although he didn't start training striking until he started fighting.


Junior Dos Santos was basically a wrestler until he started honing in his boxing skills with Luis Dorea.
good point, and hence also why I mentioned GSP. He's basically a wrestler with boxing these days. And Nick Diaz who is basically a boxer who comes from a BJJ background.


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post #28 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:30 PM
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Base used to be relevant but that was back in the old days. In modern MMA, you have to be well rounded to succeed. It never hurts when you have that takedown to rely on though.

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post #29 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:34 PM
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Base used to be relevant but that was back in the old days. In modern MMA, you have to be well rounded to succeed.
good example of that is Palhares. He could be top 5 if he developed some decent striking.


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post #30 of 56 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 03:48 PM
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The main reason why guys like Phil Davis and Palhares don't get better is because they actually ARE "wrestlers" and "BJJ" fighters.

They are specialists.

Anyone who comes into MMA in their mid to late 20s with a dedicated competition career in a single martial art is going to have difficulty picking the other aspects up with few exceptions to guys who are really athletic or really apt, like Frankie Edgar, Chris Weidman, Jon Fitch.

This is why guys like Cain, Chael, etc are only decent strikers that don't have good submissions but have some of the best wrestling around and beat the hell out of people anyway.


The key is, just like any other sport, to start honing your skills when you are young.

Dan Cormier probably has the best boxing for an older fighter that came in as a specialist, but that's also in a division of the worst athletes, and against the likes of Bigfoot and Josh Barnett. I remember him fighting Devin Cole and looking very unimpressive and just trying to basically takedown and lay in guard for a decision win.



I think the sort of way "bases" come into play is very minor, yet still somewhat important. Obviously Benson's kicking skills and range that he fights from come from his early, prepubescent training in TKD.....even though relatively that's a lesser part of his game.

His biggest MMA skills he developed was his wrestling that he developed in college. His lack of timing is pretty evident and is largely due to not having early training in real striking.

GSP had a karate base but he switched his FOCUS to wresting and submission grappling presumably because he didn't like getting hit. We still see the karate training with the sort of range he keeps and the occasional kicks he throws, but it's secondary because his focus shifted when he was in his early 20s.

And this pretty much goes on and on...

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