[SM33]

Originally Posted by Life B Ez

Hector has no ******* clue how to cut off the cage. He was chasing Paul Harris around like an idiot. Anyone with just decent footwork would have been able to land and circle out time and time again and Lombard would be left standing around like a.....wait a minute...

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You think a guy with as many fights as Lombard has never heard of cutting off the cage? He was owning Palhares in terms of movement. At all points of the fight, Hector moved to Palhares' lead(jab), and Palhares was forced to move towards Hecotor's left(power) hand.

If the cage is to Rousimar's left side, Hector does not need to move to Rousimar's right. His power hand is there waiting for when Palhares tries to circle out.

[Life B Ez]

Is that why he consistently was out of range until palhares tried to go back inside towards the cage because he didn't know what he was doing or the reason Tim was always out odd range. Lombard follows his opponents along a line. He doesn't cut off the cage. Watch him fight he walks right after the guy as he backs away. If he could cut the cage effectively he wouldn't be left standing looking all the time.

You really think that kind of footwork would even give Anderson a reason to work? Belcher would be able avoid it easily. Anderson would laugh.

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[GrappleRetarded]

Originally Posted by RearNaked

I never said I approved of how Boetch beat Lombard. But it worked.

He showed how to beat Lombard, he showed the holes in Lombard's game, and that really isn't how Boetch normally fights.

But it's exactly how Bisping fights. And Bisping would smoke Lombard by using that same strategy only 100 times more effectively.

I don't approve of point fighting, but it's here to stay. And Lombard, who would have been a lot of fun to watch in the UFC 7 years ago, is a relic of a time gone by and will never amount to anything in the UFC unless he's spoonfed guys who aren't savvy enough to avoid and outpoint him.

And by the same token, people who think Condit truly beat Diaz, can't now turn around and say Boetch's win doesn't count. It was the exact same thing.

I'll never be happy about what Condit did to Diaz. I think it was cowardly, but the real reason it bothered me so much, is because I was a HUGE Condit fan too and wanted to see the war these two promised us. Nick showed up intent on delivering that war, Condit shit the bed.

Bisping is primarily a boxer, not a leg kicker and gets rocked in pretty much all of his fights. He's also much, much more active and busier with strikes than Tim was in his fight with Hector. Bisping is much more comparable to a Frankie Edgar, rather than a Tim Boetsch looking to play tag and run with his opponents leg every now and then.

He presents a completely different stylistic approach to that of Boetsch.

[SM33]

Originally Posted by Life B Ez

Is that why he consistently was out of range until palhares tried to go back inside towards the cage because he didn't know what he was doing or the reason Tim was always out odd range. Lombard follows his opponents along a line. He doesn't cut off the cage. Watch him fight he walks right after the guy as he backs away. If he could cut the cage effectively he wouldn't be left standing looking all the time.

You really think that kind of footwork would even give Anderson a reason to work? Belcher would be able avoid it easily. Anderson would laugh.

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I'm of the opinion he was playing with Rousimar a bit, he threw a few hail mary punches before committing to the kill... fact is, Tim and Rousimar were not confident in trading with Lombard. If they out-moved him so well, they would have landed something decent.

You say Belcher can avoid Lombard's striking... do you mean he can beat him in the pocket? Because I guarantee you he can't. Outpoint him from the outside? You're looking at a repeat of the Tim fight.

Striking with Lombard is a case of get knocked out or look like a ***** trying not to. For me, Anderson is the only exception to this rule in the division.

[GrappleRetarded]

Originally Posted by SM33

I'm of the opinion he was playing with Rousimar a bit, he threw a few hail mary punches before committing to the kill... fact is, Tim and Rousimar were not confident in trading with Lombard. If they out-moved him so well, they would have landed something decent.

You say Belcher can avoid Lombard's striking... do you mean he can beat him in the pocket? Because I guarantee you he can't. Outpoint him from the outside? You're looking at a repeat of the Tim fight.

Striking with Lombard is a case of get knocked out or look like a ***** trying not to. For me, Anderson is the only exception to this rule in the division.

Alexander Shlemenko is another exception to the rule.

[Voiceless]

Originally Posted by Roflcopter

Toquihno had virtually no chance of getting this fight to the ground I found it comical that people think Hector Lombard's Olympic level Judo meant nothing for his submission grappling ability.

I'm not one of those you mention, but pure Judoka, even on Olympic level, do NOT have the same submission grappling abilities as high level BJJ fighters. Do you watch Olympic Judo¿ It's first and foremost about throwing people and preferably getting an Ippon score to win with it. Ground fighting is mostly about pinning the opponent on his back, there is hardly the attempt to "advance" position once the opponend is pinned. Submission attempts are very rare, also because fighters are usually stood up pretty fast if it doesn't really look like a submission is close to come.

In 2010 there was even a change in the Judo competition rules to ban leg grip throwing techniques. Officially it was to make Judo "look more attractive", but behind the scene it was to keep Sambo-fighters and BJJ-fighters away from competition, because these didn't care about "good throws", but just tried to somehow drag their opponents to the ground to innitiate ground fighting and win there.

Judo certainly gives an unbelievable good base and I'd recommend MMA fighters with a BJJ background to train Judo if they don't want to do wrestling, as Judo would be the natural link between stand-up and ground fighting for BJJ-fighters, BUT concerning submission grappling Judo is not even close to BJJ. BJJ is derived from Judo, but they're specialised on two different areas of fighting.

[SM33]

Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded

Alexander Shlemenko is another exception to the rule.

Much of that fight took place on the ground. And Lombard out struck him.

[GrappleRetarded]

Originally Posted by SM33

Much of that fight took place on the ground. And Lombard out struck him.

Most of the fight took place on the ground because Alexander had Lombard shooting for take downs and laying in his guard for as long as possible.

The fight was close on the feet, Lombard was clearly uncomfortable with Alexanders powerful kicks and unorthodox strikes (hence spamming the take downs).

[SM33]

Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded

Most of the fight took place on the ground because Alexander had Lombard shooting for take downs and laying in his guard for as long as possible.

The fight was close on the feet, Lombard was clearly uncomfortable with Alexanders powerful kicks and unorthodox strikes (hence spamming the take downs).

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Hector won that fight, it was a while back, Alexander is not in the UFC. It is not relevant to Lombard's current potential in the UFC, or my opinion of his threat to the UFC MW division.

[GrappleRetarded]

Originally Posted by SM33

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Hector won that fight, it was a while back, Alexander is not in the UFC. It is not relevant to Lombard's current potential in the UFC, or my opinion of his threat to the UFC MW division.

I mentioned it because you said any one that stands with Hector is either going to get knocked out or made to look like a bitch (with the exception of Andy). Alexander definitely didn't look like a bitch when he wanted to stand against Hector and had Lombard shooting for TD's.

S'all I'm saying. There are other guys out there capable of standing with Hector and actually engaging and being successful, Vitor Belfort probably being one of them.