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Jones and MacDonald - Is the hate justified?

3K views 36 replies 23 participants last post by  Hiro 
#1 ·
This just came to me but I think it's reasonable to bring up.

Back in 2011 Jon Jones became nearly universally despised after winning the title, the reception he got when he weighed in against Machida and Rashad wasn't very good at all, and people began calling him a fake and phony saying his good guy Christian act was just that, an act.

Now in the last few months it seems as if Rory MacDonald has now become a villain in the build up to his fight with BJ Penn, many get the impression that Rory comes off as a weird guy, which I also get that impression but it's not enough for me to brand him a villian, he's changed a lot since his fight with Mike Pyle though.

Rory and Jon have one thing in common they both beat a beloved fighter from the "old school" which caused me to remember the time when Rashad Evans was universally disliked after he, much like Rory and Jon beat someone who the old guard of MMA fans loved in Chuck Liddell.

Is there something to this? Do the people who watched MMA during the 90's and the early 2000's have a problem with seeing guys like BJ, Shogun, and Chuck getting beat by a younger, new breed of fighter? Or do you generally feel like Jones and Rory are just bad people outside of the cage?
 
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#2 ·
I think there is genuine reason not to like both. Especially Jones, who has more exposure then Rory and more chances to rub people the wrong way. I was a fan of Bones when he was making his run to the title, but then the closer the got to the title, the more he was in the media and the more I could see this is not the kind of guy I want to root for. I can't stand his personality. He is trying to portray an image as something he isn't. He pretends to be a humble, Christian man but his actions don't reflect that. He was very open about condemning fighters for their mistakes and even outspoken about drinking and driving specifically. Only to be busted shortly after for DUI while in the car with 2 young women who were not his wife/fiance. His is arrogant, he is fake, he is annoying. That's not hate, that's real.
 
#3 ·
I used to hate Jon Jones because he had an odd personality from a fan perspective. That is until i met Rory Mcdonald,Rory Mcdonald might be the oddest dude I have ever seen in any sport. If Rory Mcdonald wasn't famous I would assume he is a psychopath. I got used to Jon Jones, time will tell with Rory.
 
#4 ·
None of it is really deserved. I think it's a combination of their personalities but more that they are destroying some of the most beloved fighters of longtime MMA fans. Yeah they're both douchey but some of this crazy persona analysis that is seeming to run rampant in the MMA community is getting to be a bit much..
 
#5 ·
None of it is really deserved. I think it's a combination of their personalities but more that they are destroying some of the most beloved fighters of longtime MMA fans. Yeah they're both douchey but some of this crazy persona analysis that is seeming to run rampant in the MMA community is getting to be a bit much..
Jon gives everyone plenty of material to work with. He doesn't do himself any favors, that's for sure. It's been a long time since he had an interview that didn't annoy me. He wasn't the one that dethroned my favorite fighters anyways. Most of those guys I hated for that reason have gained my respect over time.
 
#8 ·
The difference (in my opinion) between the two seems to be that Rory speaks his mind honestly without fear of the repercussions ...whereas Jones tries to say what he thinks will get people to like him. Jones is trying to be a role-model. He's saying one thing but his actions are saying something else. Rory is at least consistent so far.

I don't know why people think Rory is such a weirdo. I think everything he said in the pre-fight was true, even if it meant "bad-mouthing" a legend. He was psycho-analyzing the fact BJ is fighting to live through how other people see him and speak about him. That's pretty thoughtful shit for a young guy to be thinking about. And I like it!

He's a thinker and I don't believe he will receive the same hate as Jones in the long run.

GSP grew up along the way (what about those cocky backflips??) and Rory will too. Jones & Benson will never be liked by all due to their radical religious behavior (in my opinion).

While I think it's fine to believe whatever you want to believe, I personally don't see the connection between Jesus and bashing another human beings face in. God helped you do that? Sigh.
 
#10 ·
Of course the "hate" is not justified for the simple fact that it is based merely on perception derived from a small sample of sound bytes from interviews etc.

Jones and Macdonald are not bad guys out of the octagon. Neither are Josh Koschek or Chael Sonnen or probably any other "villain" that fans might mention. I've met all 4 and they were all really down to earth guys.

Fans need to realize that seeing 0.01% of an athlete's life on tv doesn't mean you know them.

Especially when the sound bytes are coerced by asking the exact same provocative question 100 different ways.

Of course, no one is perfect. There are no doubt fighters who are a bit cocky and some will make business decisions that fans don't agree with.

That doesn't make them bad people or villains.
 
#11 ·
Of course the "hate" is not justified for the simple fact that it is based merely on perception derived from a small sample of sound bytes from interviews etc.

Jones and Macdonald are not bad guys out of the octagon.
Neither are Josh Koschek or Chael Sonnen or probably any other "villain" that fans might mention. I've met all 4 and they were all really down to earth guys.

Fans need to realize that seeing 0.01% of an athlete's life on tv doesn't mean you know them.

Especially when the sound bytes are coerced by asking the exact same provocative question 100 different ways.

Of course, no one is perfect. There are no doubt fighters who are a bit cocky and some will make business decisions that fans don't agree with.

That doesn't make them bad people or villains.
If you say we don't have enough information to judge these men then how can you come out and claim they are good people? Unless you personally know him don't you have an even smaller sample size to make this claim? Since you don't get to see him in every day life. If anything him drinking and driving while 2 innocent women, that aren't his fiance were in the car would suggest he isn't a good person. Considering his public quotes less then a month before saying "You will never have to worry about me having a DUI". Based on that he is a liar and cheater who endangered the lives of innocent people by driving intoxicated.
 
#12 ·
Hate is such a strong word.

If the real Jones is anything like his spotlight persona then I probably wouldn't like to have him around me.

I have nothing against Rory. I'm not a fan of his wardrobe but that's just superficial stuff. The one reason I don't root for him is because his biggest fights are against some of my favorite fighters. Now he's fighting Condit again so I'll be rooting against him again. The easiest way to make me like him is matching him up with Marquardt or Daley.
 
#14 ·
I think the thing I'm noticing from guys like Jones, Rory, and even Weidman now is a sense of entitlement.

I think from a fan's perspective, there are plenty of reasons to dislike Jon Jones.

- He claims to espouse traditional christian values, yet his actions and words seem to contradict such. Now I know no one is perfect, but the whole DUI thing (among other things) really didn't do him any favors. This is probably why I dislike Jones.

- His hand in the UFC 151 debacle is going to be very, very hard for him to erase. I know it wasn't all his fault but essentially he was largely responsible for the loss of millions of dollars and the cancellation of an event.

- The guy is such a damn baby. I've never seen a grown man as sensitive as Jon Jones. You're a professional athlete for crying out loud, have some damn dignity.

- Jones isn't a humble guy by any means. Add that in with the fact that he grew up with limited social interaction in a sheltered environment. It's a bad combination. He says some truly ridiculous things during interviews.


Now I don't know the man personally but I would probably not get along with someone like Jones. He's an incredible competitor and athlete and he's going to hold that belt for a long, long time, but 'm never going to cheer for him.


Rory on the other hand, I don't know much about. I don't know if he's stalling a potential fight with St. Pierre, but calling out legends far out of their prime, and fighters coming off losses seems a bit douchy. Add that along with the fact that he seems to ONLY want to fight in Canada. You're employed by the UFC. You compete when and where they tell you.

That being said, I've watched a few of Rory's post fight interviews, and unlike Jones, he's honest and not going to hide who he is. Jones want to be likened to a role model when he clearly isn't one by mot standards. Rory doesn't care. He said on Saturday's post fight interview that he "doesn't fight for the fans" and that he fights for him and because he loves it. I can respect that at least.
 
#16 ·
I've always liked Jones because he goes out there and rag dolls his opponents all over the octagon. The kid is a straight up killer. I don't care about his personality. This isn't a reality television show, it's a bloody sport. I like Jones for the same reason I like Nick Diaz. When that cage door shuts, they go out there and deliver spectacular performances for the fans, why would any one not like that?

Rory....I'm neutral. He comes across as a bit of a geek in the spotlight, but again, this isn't Big Brother, it's the fight game, why would I care? He's quite an entertaining fighter, that's really all that matters.
 
#23 ·
i dont like Jones but im a fan of Rory, Jones is a legitimate disgraceful scumbag. Rory is just misunderstood.
 
#28 ·
Jones is growing on me. I disliked him when he was pretending to be the ultra-moral son of a preacher man. But I can stomach him a whole lot more now that he's embracing who and what he is, and that's a sometimes cocky, boastful champion. There's nothing wrong with being proud and confident, unless you're proud and confident but refer to yourself as humble. I think people will start to warm to Jones during TUF. I expect a bromance with Sonnen that will bring the fans around on both men.

As for Rory, well... I'm not yet convinced that there's actually anything to talk about there. It was one time. One fight. In one arena. And people truly wanted BJ to be the Rocky/comeback/feel good story of the year. Until Rory receives further boos, his being a 'villain' is little more than an invention of the media/a few internet forum goers. Nothing more.
 
#30 ·
I think both Rory and Nick's ass kickings of Penn can be appreciated. I say Rory did better only because unlike Diaz, he didn't lose the first round. But then again, I think Diaz also fought a better BJ Penn than Rory did. But watching what Diaz did to Penn after that was shocking. I was almost positive Diaz was going to come over to the UFC and be embarrassed, but damn was I wrong. No one has ever taken it to BJ in that fashion. MacDonald put on a clinic. He beat BJ absolutely everywhere. Diaz just went nuts in the second round and refused to let up. It was like watching a human being going 100 mph. Diaz just would not stop throwing and would not slow down.

So I think they can both be appreciated because it was clearly two different types of beatings.
 
#31 ·
Rory seems fine, he's straight up, hasn't really done anything too bad. He was so tame in his pre fight talk to BJ it was ridiculous, I don't think he responded negatively once to BJ basically accusing him of roiding.

My opinion on Jones is well known around these parts.
 
#32 ·
Pure and simple I blame Vince McMahon. He created the whole heel/face thing and then pro wrestling became real and the fans didn't know who or what they were cheering for or against. :confused02: MMA is like post modern pro wrestling except there are fewer marriage, rise from the dead, and gay story lines. Other than that it's fun watching either one of these two beat the hell out of someone else in a sanctioned bout.:thumb02:
 
#33 ·
Lolz...funny, but true to an extent. Boxing had its share of colourful characters.

Rory hasn't even gone to the depths his counterpart has yet. The LHW title holder gets booed everywhere. There's a lot of Pacific Islanders in Seattle plus BJ just has a big fan base. I think that was the first time I heard any boos. Heck Anderson gets booed as long as it's not in Brazil.

I think the best fans are Brazillians and Japanese which is extremely polar opposites followed by Aussies, then Canadian fans. Come to think about it wonder why there hasn't been one in Russia yet. Dubai fans were pretty knowledgeable. I remember people wanting to root for Renzo, but knowing that Hughes would probably take it. As for UK they're quite the boisterous crowd, but I think they come to see stand ups mainly and get restless when it hits the ground.

As for the LHW title holder yall know where I stand. Rory I think it's an isolated incident.

Heels are a part of support and I thank Chael for being the top heel. I actually texted em for being hella disrespectful to Anderson...no joke. No reply. At least I won money off the fight.
 
#34 ·
As most people have said, the two cases are a bit different. Jon Jones is a [insert derogatory term]. The heat he is getting is justified. Rory is a weirdo and seems like kind of a sociopath in the spotlight, but I don't think he will get nearly as much hate as Jones. Rory just smashed the biggest hardcore fan favorite in the sport, don't forget. People will be butthurt, and I'm no exception.
 
#35 ·
When did Rory start getting as much heat as Jones? So he tooled BJ and called out the one guy who beat him...the difference between Rory and Jones is that Rory doesn't have a self righteous attitude and a pretentious demeanor. Rory keeps it pretty real, and I respect that.

It's fun to make fun of the guy though because he's still young and isn't super confident with who he is yet, so he comes off kind of creepy and fiendish. It would be hilarious though if he embraced the stereotype that he's some stone cold psychopath who doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself, if he rolled with it, no one would hate him for it.
 
#36 ·
Not only is the hate not justifiable it's downright idiotic.

People think Rory is a weird serial killer, because he said he wanted "revenge" against Carlos Condit. I remind you the guy he beat



this guy, licked the blood of his opponents off his gloves. When Rory demonstrates cannibalism that BJ does I'll hear you out. But in truth the life of a fighter

Stage 1 You are ignored by everyone, you are a nobody, a can.
Stage 2 You start to get good and therefore "hyped" and worthy of hate.
Stage 3 We find something about you to polarize the fan base and you are hated.
Stage 4 You might become a "legend" and well liked...this stage doesn't always happen.
stage 5 Your over the hill, done and you need to retire.
 
#37 ·
Personality certainly plays a big part. Jones and MacDonald are both odd characters at least in the spotlight.

Fans tend to like conventional, relative to this industry. That means Chuck running around screaming like a lunatic when he got a KO, BJ licking his gloves, JDS slashing his chest etc is all fine and actually gets people pumped up. But straight up smarmy cockiness is very rarely appreciated. Ali shuffles fall into thi category, especially during a fight in which one of the long term legends of this sport is officially being pushed aside for good.

John8204 makes a good point about the lifecycle too. Rashad Evans is the prime example of a fighter initially hated and then cheered on in most fights. His smarmy cockiness wasn't liked and nor was he, but now he's earned his stripes and is a popular fighter and HUGE ppv draw. Despite all Jones' PR mistakes and UFC 151 mess, I think he'll reach the same stage as Evans in a few years. It might take a humbling loss to do it though.
 
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