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GrappleRetarded · 12-28-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crester

Umm... that was OVER FIVE YEARS AGO... people change you know!

But it is still the ONLY time we have ever seen JDS on the ground for any extended period of time. It's the only thing we have to go off. That and his more recent bout with Carwin, where he was easily swept into a choke at the end of the round.

From the limited amount of time we have actually seen JDS on the ground, he looks to be.....well pretty bad.

**Crester** · 12-28-2012, 06:42 PM

Here's another way to look at it... if we haven't seen JDS on the ground a lot... there's a reason for that! (especially when you see his record)

**Hammerlock2.0** · 12-28-2012, 06:54 PM

I have no doubt that Cain will beat JDS if he can get the fight to the ground regularly. There's no reason to believe JDS has anything for a wrestler of Cain's caliber from his back. In fact I don't think anyone in this HW division has anything to offer when held down by Cain. I doubt JDS will end up on his back much though.

hatedcellphones · 12-28-2012, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0

I have no doubt that Cain will beat JDS if he can get the fight to the ground regularly. There's no reason to believe JDS has anything for a wrestler of Cain's caliber from his back. In fact I don't think anyone in this HW division has anything to offer when held down by Cain. I doubt JDS will end up on his back much though.

This. If Junior keeps it standing, it's his fight to win. Question marks start to show up on the ground, and I kinda want to see what'll happen if he gets taken down. Ideally, I want to see him get taken down once just so we can see how he does on his back, and worst case scenario he survives to the next round and KOs Cain again.

**Guy Incognito** · 12-28-2012, 08:04 PM

If somehow Cain doesn't win then Emelianegro will dethrone him.

RearNaked · 12-29-2012, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sports_Nerd

The only high level HWs JDS hasn't fought yet are Overeem and Brock. and presumably their timeline would've been the same regardless of Cain's injury - Brock goes through surgery while Overeem is still fighting for Strikeforce, they fight a title eliminator that after which Brock retires and Overeem is suspended.

It's not like the UFC could've wished a different contender into existence. these are the HWs the UFC has, and JDS has gone through all but Overeem like a buzzsaw. It's not like any of those fights were close, even the two decisions were one-sided demolitions.

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

You said, JDS could have had 3 or 4 (which is nonsense, it would have been 2 at most) title defenses since his first fight with Cain. I was just pointing out that he could have just as easily have lost one of those defenses. You can't put him up there with Anderson and GSP yet because those guys have had extended reigns as champ. Junior has exactly ONE title defense under his belt at this point.

Over Frank Mir.

I would rate that about equal to Chuck Liddel's title defense over Vernon White.

The fights Junior had leading up to the title, and the title win over Cain were all very impressive. But, none of that counts towards his pedigree as champion. The interesting part is still to come.

I don't really see anyone at HW that can challenge him right now, but that's more a product of the fact the HW division is pretty weak. Perhaps a slugger like Roy or Hunt could catch him, or a good wrestler like Cain or Cormier could beat him on the ground, but we'll have to wait and see.

But this thread is called 'killing the king' and I just don't see him as that yet. Let him defend a couple of times at least.

Sports_Nerd · 12-29-2012, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ludinator

Wow I think Jds may be the most overated fighter in the UFC. Cain will take Jds down tommorow night, and down he will stay. Cain will learn from his mistakes and will take the fight down when and how he chooses too. There is a lot of Cain haters on these forums, I think more people were giving frank mir more of a shot than Cain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RearNaked

I don't see what this has to do with anything.

You said, JDS could have had 3 or 4 (which is nonsense, it would have been 2 at most) title defenses since his first fight with Cain. I was just pointing out that he could have just as easily have lost one of those defenses. You can't put him up there with Anderson and GSP yet because those guys have had extended reigns as champ. Junior has exactly ONE title defense under his belt at this point.

Over Frank Mir.

I would rate that about equal to Chuck Liddel's title defense over Vernon White.

The fights Junior had leading up to the title, and the title win over Cain were all very impressive. But, none of that counts towards his pedigree as champion. The interesting part is still to come.

I don't really see anyone at HW that can challenge him right now, but that's more a product of the fact the HW division is pretty weak. Perhaps a slugger like Roy or Hunt could catch him, or a good wrestler like Cain or Cormier could beat him on the ground, but we'll have to wait and see.

But this thread is called 'killing the king' and I just don't see him as that yet. Let him defend a couple of times at least.

If cain hadn't been injured JDS would've challenged early in 2011. Plenty of time for three title defenses.

And who would he have lost those defenses to? With Brock gone and Overeem suspended, the only possible challengers are guys that, in the real timeline, he has already beaten convincingly.

You said he hasn't cleared out the division, but champions who haven't cleared out their divisions don't normally defend against people they've already finished in 64 seconds. The only guy left for him atm is Overeem.

**SM33** · 12-29-2012, 07:23 AM

I just can't understand why everyone wants to see Junior on his back? From what little I've seen, it's obvious he's no natural on the ground... and the beautiful thing is, it doesn't matter.

JDS has already murked many of the division's best grapplers, he is the Champion. We don't need to see him on his back, we need to see someone who can get in the cage with him and be at all competent. He's owned EVERYONE. He is not the challenger, he is posing the challenge, with AMAZING mixed martial arts skills. Not 'just boxing'.