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Old 12-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I was one of those people that gave Cain zero chance in this one but man, I was so pumped when it didn't turn into a one minute KO. Cain clearly practices exactly what he did last night day in day out for hours and hours every day, I can't wait to see him fight Overeem.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:55 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
An elite, deadly striker with a ridiculous clinch game and strong wrestling is a night mare match up for Cain. In comes Alistair Overeem, where Cain won't really be safe in any area the fight takes place in.

He's not safe at distance where The Reem can time him with strikes, he's not really safe rushing in and charging Overeem because he could get easily timed and KO'd by a precise strke from the K-1 champ, and he certainly isn't safe up against the cage trying to clinch take down Alistair, he could eat some nasty uber knees from there.

Very interesting fight, I still think Cain takes it. If he can use his relentless pressure without being timed perfectly by Overeem, then he will likely wilt Overeem early on, break him mentally and also destroy his cardio.
Thing is if Overeem is winning I can't see it going past two or three rounds. Overeem winning means he's landing his shots which we all know are all KO material. Cain winning can mean a five round beating. Cain held his own against Brock which surprised me. He also held JDS who's pretty damn strong himself at bay. But none of em have the arsenal Overeem has. I really think Overeem will land a bomb somewhere in there knocking out Cain cleanly. The way Overeem fights is interesting. He's this hulking dude who stays low to the ground and has good body movement for his size.
JDS is supposedly a kick boxer, but employs 99% punches. Overeem has a wicked left hook, right bomb, inside leg kicks, roundhouse kicks, super strong upper body to repel takedowns + control clinch, and of course my favorite his fake right then left KNEE to the liver. Doesn't throw much combos, but he's got sick striking. Against Cain you won't have time to throw combos anyways. It's gotta be a counter when he goes for the shoot.

Can't wait.

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Cain would KO Overeem with the overhand he landed on Junior. Overeem has good defense but his chin is made of Cabbage (not Coreira, that is actually some hard Cabbage)
I enjoyed that pun. Overeem has his hands up usually to proect himself as he knows he doesn't have the strongest chin. But he's been knocked out before so he's not afraid to engage. I think Overeem could pull it off.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:02 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Went as I thought, mainly. Cains striking suprised me a touch. I commented in the vbookie method of victory thread that odds of 10.0 for a Cain decision were fecking ridiculous. Why more people didnt cash in on it is beyond me.

As for the fight, I was disappointed it wasn't more competitive. I so wanted JDS to clip Cain in the 3rd or 4th and make a fist of it.. but no. By then he had no power.

Also, *really* surprised how poor Juniors striking is when he's on the back foot. I always assumed, training with Machida and Siva, that his striking game would cover this area better. Goes to show you, till your see all facets of a fighters game, you cant be sure how good he is. Everybody was so busy focusing on JDS grappling as being the great unknown... none of us considered it might actually be parts of his striking game that would expose him.

Theres a Glaswegian gentleman who frequents these forums, who suggested the fight would go exactly as it did... and even he was surprised.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:07 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Went as I thought, mainly. Cains striking suprised me a touch. I commented in the vbookie method of victory thread that odds of 10.0 for a Cain decision were fecking ridiculous. Why more people didnt cash in on it is beyond me.

As for the fight, I was disappointed it wasn't more competitive. I so wanted JDS to clip Cain in the 3rd or 4th and make a fist of it.. but no. By then he had no power.

Also, *really* surprised how poor Juniors striking is when he's on the back foot. I always assumed, training with Machida and Siva, that his striking game would cover this area better. Goes to show you, till your see all facets of a fighters game, you cant be sure how good he is. Everybody was so busy focusing on JDS grappling as being the great unknown... none of us considered it might actually be parts of his striking game that would expose him.

Theres a Glaswegian gentleman who frequents these forums, who suggested the fight would go exactly as it did... and even he was surprised.
Noticed how he didn't use any leg kicks this time. Went straight to his bread and butter. I think it was actually comical he'd go for constant takedowns then switch it up.

btw: Good to see you put my 800,000+ credits to use. Kindly resend when you get a moment. Lost a big $5mill bet on Belcher. I need to regroup...lolz!
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:18 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Noticed how he didn't use any leg kicks this time. Went straight to his bread and butter. I think it was actually comical he'd go for constant takedowns then switch it up.

btw: Good to see you put my 800,000+ credits to use. Kindly resend when you get a moment. Lost a big $5mill bet on Belcher. I need to regroup...lolz!
Actually, I pissed your money up some useless bet. Cant remember what. Something silly for sure. Then admin slipped me another 250k ( the sweethart ) and I put that on the ridiculous 10.0 for a Cain decision. vBookie must have had a brainfart when setting the odds for this one.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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It does make him more prone to takedowns but he does have to do something to take the initiative instead of being constantly on the defensive against Cain. JDS isn't really a kickboxer as you said but he better learn fast since his height makes it harder for him to catch someone with punches when they're going for a takedown.

The other option I can think of is better use of angles and staying the hell off the fence like his life depended on it. There were too many times when JDS backed straight away from a takedown or put himself into the fence where he got clinched and beaten on. He needs to slip to the side more and use the angle to hit Cain with punches, then keep circling out to try & keep the distance open. As soon as Cain starts to shoot in, sidestep and unload a couple quick hooks to the body.

And the more I think about it, the more it puzzles me that JDS didn't throw knees when he had Cain in the neck clinch. He blasted Roy Nelson with a bunch of knees from that position so it's not like he doesn't know how to do it. As you said, when you have the shorter guy in the clinch like that you should be working him with knees. He did that with Roy then mixed it up with punches, I just can't figure out why he didn't do the same to Cain.
I guess it was because of the pressure Velasquez put on him. When you're under pressure, you're going to do what you're most comfortable with. Against Nelson he was all the time in his comfort zone as he was outboxing him, but against Velasquez he was rather on the retreat. So yes, he really has to work on his arsenal.

And as crazy as it sounds, I think working on his own take downs and threatening Velasquez the next time could be quite beneficial for Dos Santos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
Cain would KO Overeem with the overhand he landed on Junior. Overeem has good defense but his chin is made of Cabbage (not Coreira, that is actually some hard Cabbage)
Overeem has a pretty wide guard with his hands to protect him against overhands/haymakers which most HWs mostly throw. He is more prone to straights that slip through his guard.

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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
Also, *really* surprised how poor Juniors striking is when he's on the back foot. I always assumed, training with Machida and Siva, that his striking game would cover this area better. Goes to show you, till your see all facets of a fighters game, you cant be sure how good he is. Everybody was so busy focusing on JDS grappling as being the great unknown... none of us considered it might actually be parts of his striking game that would expose him.
Actually training with Silva and Machida of all people won't make Dos Santos that much better in that particular area. They are counterstrikers. What he needs are good offensive (kick)boxers, that put pressure on him, so he can learn how to deal with that situation.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:35 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by No_Mercy View Post
Thing is if Overeem is winning I can't see it going past two or three rounds. Overeem winning means he's landing his shots which we all know are all KO material. Cain winning can mean a five round beating. Cain held his own against Brock which surprised me. He also held JDS who's pretty damn strong himself at bay. But none of em have the arsenal Overeem has. I really think Overeem will land a bomb somewhere in there knocking out Cain cleanly. The way Overeem fights is interesting. He's this hulking dude who stays low to the ground and has good body movement for his size.
JDS is supposedly a kick boxer, but employs 99% punches. Overeem has a wicked left hook, right bomb, inside leg kicks, roundhouse kicks, super strong upper body to repel takedowns + control clinch, and of course my favorite his fake right then left KNEE to the liver. Doesn't throw much combos, but he's got sick striking. Against Cain you won't have time to throw combos anyways. It's gotta be a counter when he goes for the shoot.

Can't wait.



I enjoyed that pun. Overeem has his hands up usually to proect himself as he knows he doesn't have the strongest chin. But he's been knocked out before so he's not afraid to engage. I think Overeem could pull it off.
Agree with all of the above. I've always believed Overeem to be the much more dangerous and technically better striker than Dos Santos. The dude can literally put guys into a coma with those uber-knee missiles.

That said, I,am a firm believer in karma, and I think Alitsair blatantly roiding for all of these years since he has switched to HW and hulked himself up (he is by far the strongest man in the HW division, freakishly strong, the way he was just tossing Brock Lesnar aside was frightening), so I think he'll eventually get what's coming to him and will have to suffer the consequences for cheating himself and others out of fair competition for years as HW.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Voiceless View Post
Actually training with Silva and Machida of all people won't make Dos Santos that much better in that particular area. They are counterstrikers. What he needs are good offensive (kick)boxers, that put pressure on him, so he can learn how to deal with that situation.
But Silva and Machida being such effective counter-strikers kind of implies they would have lots of quality offensive fighters at their camps, no?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #49 (permalink)

 
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:21 PM   #50 (permalink)
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But Silva and Machida being such effective counter-strikers kind of implies they would have lots of quality offensive fighters at their camps, no?
Maybe not for effective sparring at HW.
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