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Old 12-31-2012, 03:39 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
Why would you want to even try to work from guard with Cain on top of you?
well if you are smart like werdum you control the hips and use head movement and intelligent blocking and you look for an arm if you are not already holding one down to the mat or there body. So JDS should have done so if he is a nogueira black belt since that is what big nog is and was known for in pride
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:46 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by UFC_OWNS View Post
well if you are smart like werdum you control the hips and use head movement and intelligent blocking and you look for an arm if you are not already holding one down to the mat or there body. So JDS should have done so if he is a nogueira black belt since that is what big nog is and was known for in pride
It's not just "smart like Werdum", Fabricio has been one of the worlds best grapplers for the last 10 years. JDS isn't a Nogueira Black belt anyway, he trains under Yuri Carlton. There are black belts (Rashad, JDS, GSP) and then there are black belts like Werdum, Maia, Roger, Jacare, Palhares and Vinny.

Maybe Cain will take the Alan Belcher method?

I think he will fight Werdum like he fought Nog, he's not really worried about the one shot KO so he can focus on keeping the centre of the octagon and boxing with him.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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It's not just "smart like Werdum", Fabricio has been one of the worlds best grapplers for the last 10 years. JDS isn't a Nogueira Black belt anyway, he trains under Yuri Carlton. There are black belts (Rashad, JDS, GSP) and then there are black belts like Werdum, Maia, Roger and Jacare.

I think Cain will fight Werdum like he fought Nog, he's not really worried about the one shot KO so he can focus on keeping the centre of the octagon and boxing with him.
I thought he was a blackhouse nogueira fighter for his grappling and a luis dorea trained boxer. either way it is very annoying to see this "black belts" as you said like rashad and GSP and JDS when really they are probably hard to submit and that's it when the most important part of bjj is subbing,sweeping and standing up off your back. Hell BJ Penn doesn't do anything off his back but he's an animal on top which is ridiculous that he can do one but not the other.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
Why would you want to even try to work from guard with Cain on top of you?
Just think that Werdum is a more interesting matchup for Cain, stylistically. I still favor Cain but I'm just tryin to see who can compete with him at this point. Based of that performance... Damn

Idk, dude's a beast...
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Just think that Werdum is a more interesting matchup for Cain, stylistically. I still favor Cain but I'm just tryin to see who can compete with him at this point. Based of that performance... Damn

Idk, dude's a beast...
I was talking about JDS, Cain in Werdum's guard is something I do want to see though.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:45 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I think he forgot to use it.
Just like he forgot to keep his ands up.

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JDS was working off of his survival instinct after the right hand.
And yet he kept his hands down all the damn time.
JDS went full retard that night.

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Originally Posted by meli083 View Post
Just think that Werdum is a more interesting matchup for Cain, stylistically. I still favor Cain but I'm just tryin to see who can compete with him at this point. Based of that performance... Damn

Idk, dude's a beast...
Ubereem and Werdum would both beat Cain.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:49 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:58 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
I was talking about JDS, Cain in Werdum's guard is something I do want to see though.

I've never seen Werdum hit by a CLEAN shot while someone was in his guard. He just has a way of stifleing his opponents offense off his back. Seriously, I feel like the dude loves being in that bottom position coz he's just in control (no homo).

Based of that I'm afraid of seeing a repeat of Werdum overeem 2 in the matchup with Cain.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:02 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I guess I'm the only one who actually thinks JDS showed a very decent ground game. BJJ is not only about the guard. JDS prevented most of the guard passes, he turtled well, always worked for the same side underhook from halfguard to stand up.

He simply decided that he would be better off using his BJJ to stand up rather than remain on his back and work for submissions.

Also you can't forget that Cain is very legit on the ground aswell. Besides his wrestling credentials he also trained with Dave Camerillo for several years and is a brown belt under him. He has lethal ground and pound and superb top control. Just look at what he did to Big Foot, who is a very well respected Black Belt in his own.


One last point you have to consider is that nowadays you rarely see successfull guard work in heavyweight MMA. Mir had some success, but the submissions he got from his back weren't against the best grapplers out there. Even Brock shut him down in there second fight quite easily. Now the only guy in the heavyweight division who nowadays possesses a guard that is a real threat is Fabricio Werdum who simply is one of the best grapplers in sports JJ aswell.

In my opinion JDS had the right gameplan with getting up from his back and using his BJJ the way he did. He did not lose the fight because of his groundgame but rather because of Cain's relentless pressure and TD threat which ultimately lead to JDS being to concerned with TD defense and leaving himself open for jabs and straights by Cain.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:10 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tenryuken View Post
Just like he forgot to keep his ands up.



And yet he kept his hands down all the damn time.
JDS went full retard that night.



Ubereem and Werdum would both beat Cain.
You never go full retard.
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