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Old 12-31-2012, 08:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
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JDS didn't go full retard. He just couldn't deal with the pressure. I'd imagine it has to throw you completely off when the other guy is on your face from the very first second. Reem did it to Lesnar and Cain did it to JDS. A fight between these two isn't going to make the distance for sure.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:56 AM   #32 (permalink)
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JDS didn't go full retard. He just couldn't deal with the pressure. I'd imagine it has to throw you completely off when the other guy is on your face from the very first second. Reem did it to Lesnar and Cain did it to JDS. A fight between these two isn't going to make the distance for sure.
The pace that Cain brought was unbelievable. He just imposes his will on the best of them. I just thought that JDS could handle that. This was out of left field for me with how Cain handled him. At the same time, I've always respected Cain's relentless pace, I just didn't think he'd tool JDS on the throughout the fight that much.

I watched that Carwin fight and saw how easily he shrugged off those takedown and clinch attempts. I just assumed he could do the same with Cain. I overrated his BJJ for sure. MISTAKE! Incredible neutralization of JDS's ground game.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:20 AM   #33 (permalink)
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it wasnt the lack of bjj, that cost him this fight, it was the lack of a gameplan, well unless you call it a game plan to not jab and dont throw punches in general. He was looking for the one punch k.o, but he never got that opportunity. In the first round junior had several opportunities to jummp on cain after cain failed with a takedown, instead he chose to walk or run away. Awful game plan.

Cain on the other hand knew exactly what he had to do, he had a ganeplan from the get go and followed it. Greta performance from him.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:26 AM   #34 (permalink)
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If JDS's jujitsu was better than Mir's (as his trainer said), then he certainly could've offered more resistance on the ground. I, and imo others, may have overrated JDS's jujitsu.
Nothing against talking good about your student, but it shouldn't sound that ridiculous. Dos Santos never has really shown any BJJ worth talking about. As I've said here two weeks ago, recent footage of him rolling with Machida didn't show much ground fluidity. While Mir, almost TKOed and with one foot in lala-land, submitted Nogueira of all people on auto-pilot.

Dos Santos might "know" consciously all the techniques, but it's probably not "natural" to him yet. It takes years. It's like when learning a new language. You may now the grammar rules and have a big vocabulary after 3-4 years, but it takes more until you can use the language without thinking in stress situations.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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I think he used it a few times to reverse Cain and get back on his feet in the first round.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:43 AM   #36 (permalink)
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it wasnt the lack of bjj, that cost him this fight, it was the lack of a gameplan, well unless you call it a game plan to not jab and dont throw punches in general. He was looking for the one punch k.o, but he never got that opportunity. In the first round junior had several opportunities to jummp on cain after cain failed with a takedown, instead he chose to walk or run away. Awful game plan.

Cain on the other hand knew exactly what he had to do, he had a ganeplan from the get go and followed it. Greta performance from him.

JDS' only game plan was to try and land a quick overhand punch again because in reality that's all he's got on Cain and he knew it. JDS most definitely does not posses all the tools required to reign at the top of the HW division, that much is abundantly clear.

Cain even punished JDS at his one and only game. Cain is by far a much superior fighter.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I've watched the fight a couple of times now, and was suddenly stuck suprised to realize how similar JDS's style is to Chuck Liddel - low hands, confidence in striking, heavy strikes, lots of stoppages, good TTD but ultimately flawed.

Junior will still be a force in the HW division and will always have a punchers chance, but he will never rule his division like Silva or GSP.

I read a lot about how good Junior's boxing is going into this fight... But after Saturday I must say that I don't agree. Yes, he's got excellent striking and he punches like a mule kicks (but then most HW do) but his "boxing" is horrible. Not even Ray Leonard and Ali held their hand as low and inviting as JDS. He was unable to slip punches (a boxing staple) and crumbled under pressure from the first moment of the first round. His corner were telling him to keep his hands up from the end of the first round - but when you spend all your training carrying your fists under your nipples (yep I said nipples!) it's tough to change what made you champion when it stops working for you.

One dimensional fighters have had their day - The Brock's and JDS's of this world need to realize that they need more than just one arrow in their quiver
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:56 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm sure it's there, he was probably afraid of working off his back against a guy like Cain.

Did you guys see what Cain did to Bigfoot? How did his Black belt and working off his back turn out?

I'm wondering how many of the condescending armchair critics in here would like to "work calmly off their backs" while being massacred by Cain. Cain isn't Sonnen, his opponents look like halloween costumes after spending 5 mins on the ground with him unlike Sonnen's.
Yup, hanging out on the ground with Cain on top of you is almost as dumb as letting Jon Jones drop elbows on you from top position. You're gonna get hurt bad and it's gonna happen real fast, so you better get the hell out of there before you get creamed.

A real world class BJJ fighter might have a shot at working from the guard and succeeding to some degree against Cain or Jon Jones, but everyone else, black belt or not is going to get creamed.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:05 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gigogreco View Post
it wasnt the lack of bjj, that cost him this fight, it was the lack of a gameplan, well unless you call it a game plan to not jab and dont throw punches in general. He was looking for the one punch k.o, but he never got that opportunity. In the first round junior had several opportunities to jummp on cain after cain failed with a takedown, instead he chose to walk or run away. Awful game plan.

Cain on the other hand knew exactly what he had to do, he had a ganeplan from the get go and followed it. Greta performance from him.

Agreed. Looked like JDS thought he could go into the fight not having to change anything since their last encounter.

He was looking for the big shot but he couldn't get it in because of the pressure and because of his own fatigue.

It was madness to see him wind up for the big bolo uppercut when Cain would clinch with him before it could even get to chin level.

I think Cain has overall better fight IQ, and understood what mistakes he made in the first fight.

As for JDS bjj, well, like has been said, no style's adherents are created equal. He did what he was accustomed to, avoiding ground damage and getting back to the feet. Really, he did a great job despite his being gassed and dazed to fight off Cain for 5 rounds without being smothered completely or gettinkg TKO'd.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:18 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Aiken View Post
I've watched the fight a couple of times now, and was suddenly stuck suprised to realize how similar JDS's style is to Chuck Liddel - low hands, confidence in striking, heavy strikes, lots of stoppages, good TTD but ultimately flawed.

Junior will still be a force in the HW division and will always have a punchers chance, but he will never rule his division like Silva or GSP.

I read a lot about how good Junior's boxing is going into this fight... But after Saturday I must say that I don't agree. Yes, he's got excellent striking and he punches like a mule kicks (but then most HW do) but his "boxing" is horrible. Not even Ray Leonard and Ali held their hand as low and inviting as JDS. He was unable to slip punches (a boxing staple) and crumbled under pressure from the first moment of the first round. His corner were telling him to keep his hands up from the end of the first round - but when you spend all your training carrying your fists under your nipples (yep I said nipples!) it's tough to change what made you champion when it stops working for you.

One dimensional fighters have had their day - The Brock's and JDS's of this world need to realize that they need more than just one arrow in their quiver
That's the comparison I've been making for a while too. I just don't see this great boxer that everyone is/was talking about. He has a really good jab, but other than that he is basically a brawler.

Everyone needs to calm down about how one-sided the fight was, though. JDS got tagged and never recovered - that doesn't mean that he can't beat Cain, or even that Cain is better. The score is 1-1. Cain will be about -150 on the betting lines in their next fight and JDS will come back stronger than ever. Some people are such prisoners of the moment it's ridiculous. Heavyweight fights are rarely competitive if you think about it... even when the two fighters are evenly matched.
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