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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 11:16 AM
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 11:26 AM
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 12:50 PM
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I think alot of it has to do with footwork. Cro Cop has fought in the ring for years in both K-1 and Pride. He mastered the art of closing off parts of the ring, backing people up into corners etc. Also, without the cage to lean up against, in order to engage a clinch, his opponents have to move out of the way and usually they moved right into a CC head kick or left hook.
^ Pretty much this. I'd say this plays a big part in most of his UFC losses, except for Kongo who was just physically too much for him. And CroCop has become slow in the last years.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 03:10 PM
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Yeah, I agree with what was said about Fedor & CroCop. They are different beasts, the ring & the cage. It's much different being pressed up against the cage than the ropes. Fedor would often use the "springiness" of the ropes to get takedowns. Someone already commented on backing people into corners as well. Then you've got breaks/standups due to going under/outside of the ropes. I think it's obvious one arena would hinder/benefit certain fighters/styles more than others. And honestly IDK which I prefer; I think I'll give a slight edge to the ring, as I feel it tends to promote more stand-up wars. Whaddaya think?
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 03:30 PM
 
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The cage allows wrestlers to use it as a wall and has the disadvantage for strikers at least stalkers that they can't back a guy into the corner cause they can always circle out. Counter punchers again have the advantage in the octagon in that they can circle out, they always have some place to move when the aggressor comes ahead. Cro Cop was and still is a stalker and the octagon was never suited for him well because of that. Judo (to a lesser degree Sambo as its judo based) guys are another group at a disadvantage in the cage becasue some trips and throws are just harder to get off in a cage with his opponents back to it, Ropes don't offer the same structure.




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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2013, 07:35 PM
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The cage allows wrestlers to use it as a wall and has the disadvantage for strikers at least stalkers that they can't back a guy into the corner cause they can always circle out. Counter punchers again have the advantage in the octagon in that they can circle out, they always have some place to move when the aggressor comes ahead. Cro Cop was and still is a stalker and the octagon was never suited for him well because of that. Judo (to a lesser degree Sambo as its judo based) guys are another group at a disadvantage in the cage becasue some trips and throws are just harder to get off in a cage with his opponents back to it, Ropes don't offer the same structure.
This.

Cro Cop's entire game was to stalk his opponents and back them into a corner using a very rangey right cross and heavy kicks. Then all of a sudden there's nowhere to go and Cro Cop can land some heavy, heavy shots on you.
When he moved to the octagon he was no longer able to cut his opponents off and back them into a corner.

Unfortunately he was never able to adapt to the octagon and he lost to a bunch of guys that he shouldn't.

His recent fights in the ring are notable because he's been standing with very high level kickboxers, guys that would destroy Gonzaga in 2 minutes.







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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 01:55 PM
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There is also the difference in the rules. The no kicks/knees to a grounded opponent (fingertip is enough grounding) and no 12-6 elbows heavily favors wrestlers as they can notoriously stick to their opponent and try for single/double leg TDs from the clinch without worrying to get kneed to the head and without much worrying about elbow strikes from above.

That didn't really play a big role for CroCop, but it does play a role in overall comparison between fighting in Pride or UFC.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 10:01 PM
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I'm from croatia, and i can testify to the numerous times cro cop said that he hates the octagon and never got used to it. It just doesn't suit his style, as some have pointed out. His go-to game is to push people into a corner and unload on them, which he, obviously, wasn't able to implement in the octagon.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 12:30 AM
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I think there are some other facts when it comes to CC that people are forgetting, like in the Cage people walked him down. The most success he had in the UFC was when he was able to walk someone down, much like he did in Pride. But more fighters in the UFC train months for their opponent, you find out he can't just throw his kicks if he is walking backwards. So you focus on walking him down, forcing him to back up to keep his range and all of a sudden he isn't nearly as dangerous.

I don't know how much different his career would have gone if he fought UFC fighters in the ring though. A lot of items that he lost to would still have beaten him in the ring assuming people were willing to walk him down/into corners.

As for the topic overall, it wasn't just the ring, it was where the ring was. In Japan you had 100 resets a fight for wiping blood down, let alone to get fighters out from under the ropes. There was also the fact of the 10 minute first round, that round is brutal and I really wonder how it would affect fights in the UFC if there was something like the grapplers round. Also lets not forget the rule changes. If Kos and Fitch could knee guys in the head on the ground the WW division would be full of guys who never made it out of the first round with either of them.
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