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Brock Vs unroided Overeem? (same overeem that got KOd by bigfoot)

7K views 71 replies 37 participants last post by  Woodenhead 
#1 ·
hi all

i've been really thinking the last few days since big foot violently knocked out Overeem.

and before i start, please to all the Brock haters; i am not saying he is the greatest heavyweight of all time nor am i trying to hype him up saying he was an elite martial artist...

however, had overeem not been juiced up to the shithouse against brock, would the out come of their NYE 2010 showdown had been any different?? what do you think?

go back to the Brock Vs overeem fight, to me it just looked as though brock was not able to match overeems strength and power. overeem was tossing brock around the cage like brock was one division below him. and before people jump in to say Cain did the same, Cain used world class technique and skill to beat brock. where as overeem was just too strong. those viscious knees and so effortlessly being able to keep brock against the fence... like he just seemed so strong and powerful. too strong..

against bigfoot overeem was definately not as strong. some might dismiss it as him being too cocky and not respecting bigfoot which i agree with, but surely he lost alot of his strength and possibly self beleif knowing he wasnt juiced...


purpose of this thread is to know if you guys think the outcome of that fight would of been significantly different if overeem wasnt juicing.

cheers:thumb03:
 
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#3 ·
Roided Reem Vs Second Round Struve would be good.

But it would go the exact same. Reem was just exposed more in the Bigfoot fight. Brock wasn't looking to strike and was too scared to shoot for the take down. Bigfoot was getting the exact same treatment until he went out in that round and started throwing back. Reem on Roids is the same as Reem off Roids. Overbulked Reem is the guy featured in both of them.
 
#4 ·
More to the point, I would like to have seen the fit Lesnar before his illnesses, go against Overeem. The Lesnar that fought Overeem was a shadow of the one that crushed Mir
 
#5 ·
It was more psychological. The rookie Brock was the most dangerous.

1.) He's never been hit before.
2.) Ultra aggressive.
3.) Being that you're a rookie you tend to go with what you're best at. Take down and gnp immediately. He took down Frank Mir who's a black belt in BJJ. He didn't give a shit. Even after he got submitted he took em down again and pounded Mir's face in.

You can tell from the press conference and weigh ins. Brock was no longer the ultra cocky guy he once was.

- faces a life threatening disease
- got hit by Carwin and narrowly escaped that 1st round
- gets bashed by Cain
- goes through a second bout with the disease again

These are all moot points now. Alistair is a far better fighter than Brock and his weight + strength was nullified. Brock went for the takedown and Overeem didn't even move. He ran into a wall then subsequent knees. PEDs had nothing to do with especially since it ended in the 1st. If it were a back and forth match then yes it could have had a role.

Ultimately I'm almost certain the year long layoff was quite detrimental to his training regimen and momentum.
 
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#7 ·
It's not his body, it's his camp that is the problem. Overeem is still a world class fighter, he just needs a coach who will tell him to keep his f'ing hands up. Overeem had the fight in the bag and literally handed it to Bigfoot on a silver platter.

Standing in front of a 260 pound man trying to punch you with your hands down and chin up = nap time. Bigfoot is not a can, he isn't good enough to beat Cain but Saturday night was a simple case of a terrible camp filled with yes men telling him he's god. He needs a guy like Greg Jackson to yell at him "you're an idiot, keep your hands up, you are nothing until you win"
 
#8 ·
Reem's strength and power seemed no different to me in the Silva fight, he still pushed him away like nothing, worked him against the fence and controlled him on the ground.

Reem's problem in this fight was lack of respect and clashing with Silva head first in the third. YOU DO NOT PLAY BUMPER CARS WITH SOMEONE WHO'S HEAD IS THAT BIG.
 
#26 ·
Reem's strength and power seemed no different to me in the Silva fight, he still pushed him away like nothing, worked him against the fence and controlled him on the ground.
Reem's problem in this fight was lack of respect and clashing with Silva head first in the third. YOU DO NOT PLAY BUMPER CARS WITH SOMEONE WHO'S HEAD IS THAT BIG.
That was a fantastic line. I think Big Head should really come up with bobble head figurines of himself. I really think it would be a best seller that in addition to those air punching bags. You know the ones for kids.

I mean every time I see him I really feel like he's going to fall over. I really wonder how he keeps his equilibrium.
If they ever made a remake of Addams Family he would win the role of Lurch hands down. Dana White would play Uncle Fester.
 
#14 ·
Assuming there was something wrong when Brock himself said he was back to 100% is just plain stupid.

I had major surgery 2 years ago. Can I blame future athletic failings on that?

Brock fans are so blinded by their love for him that they fail to recognize the only difference between Brock pre and post op was who he was fighting. Brock went 1-1 with Mir and beat old man Couture. Brock had one legit win and he got it by hammer fisting Mir. Fast forward to post op and Brock faces Carwin, who he actually does well against.

So why did Brock do so well in the Carwin fight if his illness was affecting him oh so badly? Brock overcame adversity and an unbelievable amount of punishment from Shane to come back and win.

Guess Brocks illness only affects him when he loses (or maybe it was because Brock was a one trick pony, but hey I am pretty ridiculous, don't listen to me).
 
#16 ·
it's all nonsense, you think it is reasonable but it's pure nonsense. So what you had surgery, did you ever have part of your colon removed then get kicked their by Overeem 6 months later? Saying he's the same guy is freaking insane, he literally had 12 inches of tissue removed from his insides. No one here is talking about his performances, he always sucked at fighting, you're are just spewing ignorance and bias.
 
#17 ·
All of these situational fighters are getting pretty ridiculous. If there was an 8 man tournament between Pre-illness Brock, unroided Reem, Second Rd Struve, K1 Maia, Fat and Out of shape Munoz, motivated Penn, Pre-Serra GSP,and Hashad 2.0, I'd put all of my money on The Shogun of PRIDE. :laugh:
 
#21 ·
Are we talking pre-illness or post-illness Brock.....

......

Pre-illness Brock murders all, and yes I am the last Lesnar nuthugger left.
 
#23 ·
getting a little of topic here lol...

i think overeem lost abit of his confidence not knowing he was on the juice. cro cop mentioned the same thing and he definately looked less defined at the weigh ins. and i think he may of lost a bit of his strength and ferociousness.

would it of made a difference to the outcome of the fight with brock.. dont know. maybe, maybe not
 
#24 ·
How can you say he lost confidence? Overeem was clowning him in round one and two, he was so overconfident in round three that...well..you saw what he did. Overeem underestimated Bigfoot's striking and got ktfo. I don't understand how that can be attributed to ped use. The roids didn't make his chin stronger and ego smaller.
 
#27 ·
Brock never could take a shot, pre or post illness. See how he reacted to the jumping knee Mir threw at him in their second fight. He completely crumples for a second before gripping that single leg for dear life and taking the fight to the ground. Brock was never good at taking a punch and refused to allow people to spar hard with him. His training routines consisted of lifting weights and wrestling.

Overeem would have demolished him either way. In the Bigfoot fight he was still the stronger of the two fighters, every time they clinched he was in clear control. Notice how he always managed to turn Silva into the fence and never ended up in a bad position. Alistair even threw Bigfoot like a child and maintained top-control for half a round. At the end of the day it was his game planning and lack of discipline that caused the loss, not because he was on or off any PEDs.
 
#28 ·
That Jerry Maquire kid said that a human head weighs eight pounds. Here's a list of data you guys might find interesting.

Brock's head - 16 pounds
Overeem's " - 12 pounds
Rampage's " - 20 pounds
Big Foot's Orangutan head - 36 pounds

The winner, none of the above. It's actually Tito Ortiz' weighing in at a whopping 50 pounds. That's 25% of his body weight.

Source: wikipedia/No Mercy
 
#29 ·
I put Overeems loss to bigfoot down to nothing more than underestimating him. I dont think being off the roids had much effect and I think a Roided Reem would have still lost, going into that fight the way he did.

That being said, If Reem and Bigfoot were to fight 10 more times, I'd expect Reem to win 10 of them.
 
#30 ·
I put Overeems loss to bigfoot down to nothing more than underestimating him. I dont think being off the roids had much effect and I think a Roided Reem would have still lost, going into that fight the way he did.
A roided Overeem might have won that fight. Not because of more strength, but because of higher aggression and less playing around.
 
#31 ·
Eh it's tough to say. Even if they fought pre-illness, I'd probably give the edge to Overeem, and I'm probably the biggest Lesnar fan here. But Lesnar would have had a better chance because of his "I'm going to take you to the ground and do whatever I want" mentality. Whereas in the last fight, he was scared to do anything and was almost just waiting for it to be over.
 
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