***OFFICIAL*** Georges St-Pierre vs. Nick Diaz Thread - Page 22 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

View Poll Results: Your prediction

Georges St-Pierre (c) 81 76.42%
Nick Diaz 25 23.58%
Draw 0 0%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

Reply

Old 03-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #211 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchestoorrrrrrr
Posts: 1,469
GrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound Great
Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Paul Guy View Post
There's more to striking then KOs and more to grappling then subs. Georges might be the best MMA grappler in the world. He swept Jon Fitch and passed BJ's guard repeatedly - Nick wouldn't be able to do either of those things.

And submitting Matt Hughes with an armbar is a lot more impressive than submitting a completely gassed Gomi via gogo.

To be clear I'm rooting for Nick and he's probably my second favorite fighter, but I'm just being realistic about his chances.... Even if this wasn't a terrible stylistic matchup, he's pretty outgunned skill-wise.
Oh bloody hell, he swept Jon Fitch! His BJJ must be legit! Diego Sanchez also swept Jon Fitch half a dozen times in their fight. The Matt Hughes fight was 6 years ago, and yes ,it was impressive, but again, he hasn't submitted an opponent in six years. He couldn't submit a grapple retarded fighter in Dan Hardy, when GSP had been training for months with a gameplan solely to submit him! I think that speaks volumes about GSP's BJJ abilities.

Listen, he's got good BJJ, GSP certainly isn't weak in any area of the game, but to imply that he's significantly better at BJJ than Diaz when Georges hasn't earned a sub in six years and failed to submit Dan Hardy after 25 minutes of action isn't supporting your case.

There is more to striking than KO's. Nick has stood with some of the most dangerous strikers in the game and beaten them at their own game. Can the same be said about GSP? No. What top notch strikers has GSP beaten at their own game? Thiago Alves? The last time GSP actually decided to stand and trade with a good striker, he ended up getting his nose broken and had his face boxed up by BJ Penn and was rushed to hospital immediately after the fight.

The results speak for themselves. Nick Diaz has stood and out struck top strikers and beaten them at their own game, GSP simply hasn't. Josh Koscheck is not a good striker, Jake Shields is not a good striker, he managed to drop Thiago Alves, a good striker, that's the most impressive George's has looked in the striking department against a legitimate striker in recent years.

I just don't see where this "significant" advantage in BJJ and striking comes from. All logic points to Nick Diaz having the better striking and BJJ game, which is backed up by results and statistics.
GrappleRetarded is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 03-12-2013, 08:01 PM   #212 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,437
TanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World RenownTanyaJade Is World Renown
It's hard to say who has better striking or jiujitsu when comparing St. Pierre and Diaz. They both use very different styles. I think Nick's offensive jiujitsu game may be more effective than St. Pierre's, but I also think that Diaz is more likely to get submitted than St. Pierre.
When we're talking about striking, it's hard to say. I think St. Pierre's striking game is more diverse, he incorporates all different styles from boxing to muy thai in his arsenal and I don't think it's a question that St. Pierre has better defensive striking. Diaz uses his hands almost exclusively and while it may be unorthodox it's obviously effective and we've seen more results come from Diaz's striking than we have St. Pierre's.

I'm obviously a major Diaz hater. I despise the man and the image he represents and it's entirety. But I don't think there's a shot in hell that St. Pierre finishes Diaz. I think he'll jab and elbow him into oblivion, but Diaz is like a douchey terminator. Paul Daley proved that no matter how many times you hit him flush, he's still going to keep coming.
TanyaJade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:05 PM   #213 (permalink)
 
Budhisten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
Posts: 9,094
Budhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF MaterialBudhisten Is Future HOF Material
Yeah.

__________________



MMAForum - Please follow, like and download our app!
Budhisten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:34 PM   #214 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
aerius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,202
aerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level now
I won't comment on the grappling aspect since that's not my main area of knowledge, but the striking part is pretty interesting. In striking, Nick Diaz is a specialist, and by that I mean that when it's strictly boxing he's damn good at it and pretty much unmatched. If you trade punches with him you will not win.

However, boxing is only one part of striking, there's also kicks, knees, elbows, and most importantly, footwork to setup all the above. The last one is Diaz's main weakness along with kicks, and that is where GSP can take him apart if he's smart.

Diaz uses a very side-on and fairly upright boxing stance, this extends his reach and helps setup his lead strikes, but it also leaves him vulnerable to low kicks and takedowns. Diaz doesn't have fast footwork and the stance slows him down further when he's trying to turn to his right to chase or cut off an opponent. Note how Condit was able to spin away to Diaz' right and reset towards the center of the cage nearly every time he got backed into the fence. With a wider stance Diaz can use a lead hook to cut off an opponent who's stepping towards his right without moving his feet to reset his angle, this gives the opponent little time to get away. With his narrow side-on stance, Diaz has to reset his feet before he can throw a strike, and that's what gave Condit the time to get away from the fence.

There's no question that GSP has much faster footwork, and he's also shown great ring awareness in that he always controls the distance and stays away from the fence. He should have little problem circling to Diaz' right where he's safe since Diaz will have to punch across his own body to hit him. As I've learned from over 20 years of various striking based martial arts, you have no power or reach when throwing strikes across your body against someone who has the angle on you. You need to reset your feet first, and while you're doing that your opponent is taking free shots on you.

If GSP and his coaches are smart they're going to exploit this for all it's worth. Start with the left low kick to right cross left hook combo and exit to Diaz' right. Once Diaz starts picking up on that, start with a superman punch or right straight down the pipe and exit with a left leg kick. The footwork is very similar to the first combo. Next combo, right kick to the body, left hook to the body or head, exit. Every combo starts with very similar footwork and exits to Diaz' right. There's nothing fancy and they all use strikes that GSP is good at and used to good effect in previous fights.

GSP can't match Diaz in boxing, if he tries he'll end up like the rest of Nick's victims. What he can do is use his superior speed, footwork, and kicks to take Diaz apart while staying out of the killzone. If he's smart he'll do that and pick up an easy win. If he gets sucked into Diaz' game, all bets are off.
aerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #215 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchestoorrrrrrr
Posts: 1,469
GrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound Great
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerius View Post
I won't comment on the grappling aspect since that's not my main area of knowledge, but the striking part is pretty interesting. In striking, Nick Diaz is a specialist, and by that I mean that when it's strictly boxing he's damn good at it and pretty much unmatched. If you trade punches with him you will not win.

However, boxing is only one part of striking, there's also kicks, knees, elbows, and most importantly, footwork to setup all the above. The last one is Diaz's main weakness along with kicks, and that is where GSP can take him apart if he's smart.

Diaz uses a very side-on and fairly upright boxing stance, this extends his reach and helps setup his lead strikes, but it also leaves him vulnerable to low kicks and takedowns. Diaz doesn't have fast footwork and the stance slows him down further when he's trying to turn to his right to chase or cut off an opponent. Note how Condit was able to spin away to Diaz' right and reset towards the center of the cage nearly every time he got backed into the fence. With a wider stance Diaz can use a lead hook to cut off an opponent who's stepping towards his right without moving his feet to reset his angle, this gives the opponent little time to get away. With his narrow side-on stance, Diaz has to reset his feet before he can throw a strike, and that's what gave Condit the time to get away from the fence.

There's no question that GSP has much faster footwork, and he's also shown great ring awareness in that he always controls the distance and stays away from the fence. He should have little problem circling to Diaz' right where he's safe since Diaz will have to punch across his own body to hit him. As I've learned from over 20 years of various striking based martial arts, you have no power or reach when throwing strikes across your body against someone who has the angle on you. You need to reset your feet first, and while you're doing that your opponent is taking free shots on you.

If GSP and his coaches are smart they're going to exploit this for all it's worth. Start with the left low kick to right cross left hook combo and exit to Diaz' right. Once Diaz starts picking up on that, start with a superman punch or right straight down the pipe and exit with a left leg kick. The footwork is very similar to the first combo. Next combo, right kick to the body, left hook to the body or head, exit. Every combo starts with very similar footwork and exits to Diaz' right. There's nothing fancy and they all use strikes that GSP is good at and used to good effect in previous fights.

GSP can't match Diaz in boxing, if he tries he'll end up like the rest of Nick's victims. What he can do is use his superior speed, footwork, and kicks to take Diaz apart while staying out of the killzone. If he's smart he'll do that and pick up an easy win. If he gets sucked into Diaz' game, all bets are off.
Great break down, you should do a blog on striking or some thing.
GrappleRetarded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:55 PM   #216 (permalink)
Don't Sweat the Technique
 
St.Paul Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Duluth, MN
Posts: 1,660
St.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For GreatnessSt.Paul Guy Is Destined For Greatness
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
Oh bloody hell, he swept Jon Fitch! His BJJ must be legit! Diego Sanchez also swept Jon Fitch half a dozen times in their fight. The Matt Hughes fight was 6 years ago, and yes ,it was impressive, but again, he hasn't submitted an opponent in six years. He couldn't submit a grapple retarded fighter in Dan Hardy, when GSP had been training for months with a gameplan solely to submit him! I think that speaks volumes about GSP's BJJ abilities.

Listen, he's got good BJJ, GSP certainly isn't weak in any area of the game, but to imply that he's significantly better at BJJ than Diaz when Georges hasn't earned a sub in six years and failed to submit Dan Hardy after 25 minutes of action isn't supporting your case.

There is more to striking than KO's. Nick has stood with some of the most dangerous strikers in the game and beaten them at their own game. Can the same be said about GSP? No. What top notch strikers has GSP beaten at their own game? Thiago Alves? The last time GSP actually decided to stand and trade with a good striker, he ended up getting his nose broken and had his face boxed up by BJ Penn and was rushed to hospital immediately after the fight.

The results speak for themselves. Nick Diaz has stood and out struck top strikers and beaten them at their own game, GSP simply hasn't. Josh Koscheck is not a good striker, Jake Shields is not a good striker, he managed to drop Thiago Alves, a good striker, that's the most impressive George's has looked in the striking department against a legitimate striker in recent years.

I just don't see where this "significant" advantage in BJJ and striking comes from. All logic points to Nick Diaz having the better striking and BJJ game, which is backed up by results and statistics.
GSP doesn't try to beat people at their own game, which is why there are no examples of him beating people at their own games.

You're really living up to your namesake when it comes to your grappling analysis. It's pretty agreed upon that GSP could compete at a ADCC level if he wanted to. Nick couldn't.

Nick has never come close to submitting anybody anywhere near Matt Hughes' level. Hughes was probably a better grappler than Diaz is now.

This is all going to be really obvious to everyone when GSP double-legs Nick into oblivion and passes his guard with ease every time Nick tries anything off his back on Saturday.

EDIT: And you need to re-watch the Hardy fight. You make it sound like GSP was attempting subs for 25 minutes and clearly he was content to ride out a decision after the arm bar attempt failed.
__________________



Sig credit: MC

~ Lifetime Membership sponsored by RustyRenegade ~
St.Paul Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #217 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
aerius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,202
aerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
Great break down, you should do a blog on striking or some thing.
Too much work for me. Beside, Jack Slack already does that and he's far more knowledgeable than I am and a much better writer too.
aerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 10:47 PM   #218 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manchestoorrrrrrr
Posts: 1,469
GrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound GreatGrappleRetarded Is A Pound 4 Pound Great
Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Paul Guy View Post
GSP doesn't try to beat people at their own game, which is why there are no examples of him beating people at their own games.

You're really living up to your namesake when it comes to your grappling analysis. It's pretty agreed upon that GSP could compete at a ADCC level if he wanted to. Nick couldn't.

Nick has never come close to submitting anybody anywhere near Matt Hughes' level. Hughes was probably a better grappler than Diaz is now.

This is all going to be really obvious to everyone when GSP double-legs Nick into oblivion and passes his guard with ease every time Nick tries anything off his back on Saturday.

EDIT: And you need to re-watch the Hardy fight. You make it sound like GSP was attempting subs for 25 minutes and clearly he was content to ride out a decision after the arm bar attempt failed.
So you've got absolutely nothing to prove that GSP has this significant advantage over Diaz in the striking department because GSP doesn't even attempt to strike with the strikers. So please, what are you actually basing this significant striking advantage off? There's not a single fight to clearly indicate that GSP has a significant advantage over Diaz in the striking or BJJ departments, it's just from your assumptions.

If GSP was such a BJJ monster, he would have submitted Dan Hardy within two rounds (it took Chris Lytle ten seconds) and wouldn't have treated the octagon floor like a hot pool of lava from a sonic the hedgehog game when he was fighting Jake Shields.

GSP has a significant advantage over Diaz in the wrestling department. That is pretty much acknowledged by all. But claiming that GSP has some huge advantage over Diaz in the BJJ and striking departments is just absolutely ludicrous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aerius View Post
Too much work for me. Beside, Jack Slack already does that and he's far more knowledgeable than I am and a much better writer too.
Jack Slack is a wee bit too biased for my liking and I don't rate him as a writer. You should do some MMAF blogs.
GrappleRetarded is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:23 PM   #219 (permalink)
Featherweight
 
aerius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,202
aerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level nowaerius is on another level now
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
Jack Slack is a wee bit too biased for my liking and I don't rate him as a writer. You should do some MMAF blogs.
It would be a very lonely blog. Between work, family, boxing lessons, and all the other stuff I do I'd be lucky to get a decent article up every 6 months, plus I'd be out of ideas after 3-4 posts. And I'm lazy. Did I mention that I'm lazy?

As for Jack Slack, he has his bias for certain things but overall it's solid. The techniques just plain work, I've used them while sparring in boxing and muay thai with pretty good results. His boxing articles along with my boxing coaches helped me understand why I'm good at long range and up close striking while sucking at medium range.
aerius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 11:29 PM   #220 (permalink)
You're not terribly important to me
 
UFC_OWNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Sell me this pen
Posts: 13,755
Blog Entries: 1
UFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF MaterialUFC_OWNS Is Future HOF Material
Nick Diaz has the best style of stand up in MMA easily for the reason that he is always tagging you instead of looking for the homerun swing everytime and missing like many mma fighters do while he is wearing you down fast with this style.

He gets fluidity and cohesion with his timing and punches and then starts to pour on the bigger shots to put you away when you were already tired. The only thing he needs to work on his getting his opponents trapped in a corner so they can't get out and move towards their direction when they try to get out so they can't.
__________________

Jim Norton
Nick Dipaolo
Dave Attell
Dave Chappelle
Bill Burr
Joey Diaz
Colin Quinn
Bob Kelly
Rich Vos
Patrice O'Neal
Louis CK


UFC_OWNS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums
Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
Powered by vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2009 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios