Josh Koscheck might take some time off, do some bad things, then fight for a title - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:12 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Who's Josh Koscheck?
He is like the American Michael Bisping. Except he actually fought for the title. But just as annoying, actually more annoying.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:13 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How do you think he stacks up vs Fitch in that same category? What about Bisping?
If I could use an analogy Jon Fitch is the 72 Dolphins not the greatest team of all time but had that special long run. While Koscheck would be the 90's Braves, always in the playoffs strong divisional dominance but never really the best team. Fitch is sort of on the downside of his career, Koscheck still seems to have 3-5 more productive years and I think what happens from here on out will determine who was better.

As for Bisping, how could he be the greatest UFC fighter to never hold the belt when he never even earned a title shot? He's like the Cheick Kongo of the MW division, Cheick is a solid guy with a lot of wins but Cheick steps up he loses and that's Bisping. He's a popular guy but even in his division you could rattle off a half dozen names of guys that were greater.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If I could use an analogy Jon Fitch is the 72 Dolphins not the greatest team of all time but had that special long run. While Koscheck would be the 90's Braves, always in the playoffs strong divisional dominance but never really the best team. Fitch is sort of on the downside of his career, Koscheck still seems to have 3-5 more productive years and I think what happens from here on out will determine who was better.

As for Bisping, how could he be the greatest UFC fighter to never hold the belt when he never even earned a title shot? He's like the Cheick Kongo of the MW division, Cheick is a solid guy with a lot of wins but Cheick steps up he loses and that's Bisping. He's a popular guy but even in his division you could rattle off a half dozen names of guys that were greater.
I don't know if Bisping is quite as far down as Kongo but I do agree he is below Fitch for sure. I don't think simply earning a title shot means you are better though because there are circumstances that go into it. For example Dan Hardy can't possibly be considered to have had a better career then Bisping. I don't think Thiago Alves has either. Certianly Leties hasn't had the same quality career. I think Bisping is closer to Kenny Florian, even though Kenny did get title shots.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I put Kos and Fitch about equal in terms of what they have done. Kos took more chances so he was KO'd by a guy like Paulo. And he took a Thiago Alves fight on 2 weeks notice and lost.

Fitch might have the better w/l record, but he also fought as safe as possible and hasn't finished anyone in years, and most were cans.

Bisping is below both. Not nearly as many quality wins. When he loses he gets destroyed. I'd put Bisping on a Diego Sanchez level.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:35 PM   #15 (permalink)
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It seems like Kos was describing Hendricks in his description of what kind of fighter it was going to take to beat GSP...Just saying...
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:39 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Koscheck needs to figure out a way to cut to 155. I bet if he cuts off his clown hair he'd lose 5lbs.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I don't know if Bisping is quite as far down as Kongo but I do agree he is below Fitch for sure. I don't think simply earning a title shot means you are better though because there are circumstances that go into it. For example Dan Hardy can't possibly be considered to have had a better career then Bisping. I don't think Thiago Alves has either. Certianly Leties hasn't had the same quality career. I think Bisping is closer to Kenny Florian, even though Kenny did get title shots.
Bisping might be better than some of the guys that have gotten title shots (Buentello, Eilers, Hardy, Hominick, Abbott, Leites) but the issue is greatest fighter to never win a title, you have to fight for the title and Bisping didn't and won't ever do that. Thiago Alves earned his title shot and did so by defeated top ten guys. Lytle, Hughes, Kos, and Karo is a pretty amazing run and personally I would even rank a Chris Lytle or Karo Parisyan over a Michael Bisping.

As for Kenny Florian, the kid earned his three title shots and he's likely going in the Hall of Fame. Bisping had three chances to earn three title fights and he failed each time while Florian had four chances to earn title fights and he won three of them.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Bisping might be better than some of the guys that have gotten title shots (Buentello, Eilers, Hardy, Hominick, Abbott, Leites) but the issue is greatest fighter to never win a title, you have to fight for the title and Bisping didn't and won't ever do that. Thiago Alves earned his title shot and did so by defeated top ten guys. Lytle, Hughes, Kos, and Karo is a pretty amazing run and personally I would even rank a Chris Lytle or Karo Parisyan over a Michael Bisping.

As for Kenny Florian, the kid earned his three title shots and he's likely going in the Hall of Fame. Bisping had three chances to earn three title fights and he failed each time while Florian had four chances to earn title fights and he won three of them.
I too would put Kenny above Bisping for that reason. Plus Kenny was a finisher. Tough to be that good at finishing at 155. That said, Kenny doesn't really have 1 career defining win. His best win of his career may be Guida or Joe Daddy. Not that Bisping has many if any career defining wins.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The greatest fighter to never hold a title is Chael Sonnen. End of story.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:47 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I too would put Kenny above Bisping for that reason. Plus Kenny was a finisher. Tough to be that good at finishing at 155. That said, Kenny doesn't really have 1 career defining win. His best win of his career may be Guida or Joe Daddy. Not that Bisping has many if any career defining wins.
Yeah Kenny got the fast track due to his likeable personality, memorable fights and being TUF alum. He also got the benefit of fighting before the divisions really started to develop. I don't think even the best Kenny Florian would be a current top 5 LW or FW. He also lost all his biggest fights. 0-3 in title fights and lost TUF Finale. Bisping atleast has the title of TUF winner. Even if his Finale opponent was the worst in TUF history.
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