***OFFICIAL*** Johny Hendricks vs. Carlos Condit Thread - Page 21 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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View Poll Results: Your prediction
Johny Hendricks 18 31.58%
Carlos Condit 38 66.67%
Draw 1 1.75%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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post #201 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
Well, in my little world takedowns count for nothing so it was an easy call for me since it was basically even on the feet and when Hendricks took it down it was all Condit.
I'm a fan of Condit, and thought he did very well for himself in that fight. However, I would like to submit to you the following argument:

Most combat sports have a certain degree of abstraction. In Wrestling and Judo you can stop a fight by pinning your opponent, in Sumo you can score by just pushing them out of the ring, etc'.

These rules aren't arbitrary. They come from the understanding that if a combatant can pin his opponent for x number of seconds, he could certainly have damaged his opponent during that time in an actual fight.

The same applies to MMA, to a much lesser extent. certain techniques which are extremely effective from the dominant position are banned to protect the fighters, therefore you must reward the dominant position itself, and not just the actual damage done from that position.

Also, watch the fighters before the winner gets called. they both knew whose hand would be raised.
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post #202 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:23 PM
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Good points, and yes, Hendricks did win that fight, but 'abstraction' aside, when the bottom guys is hitting harder than the top guy, that should probably be taken into consideration as well .. if you take someone down, you should have to show a minimal level of control before we 'abstract' to far down the road

But in most cases, you are indeed right, a take down, if it's not worth anything, should then be easily avoided or nullified when it happens ... if it can't be then obviously it's a valid and effective fighting tactic and deserves to be respected as such.
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post #203 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:28 PM
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^Certain techniques from the bottom are banned as well and in BJJ the guard is considered a neutral position. In many points it can be considered the opposite of wrestling. But this is MMA and the one thing that counts is damaging your opponent. Control doesn't matter in real fights, damage does. I realize that these are the current rules of MMA but every sport has dumb rules and scoring top position as "control" and scoring control at all is an even dumber rule than intentional walks in baseball or that the ground can't cause a fumble in American football or every basketball rule ever (huge basketball fan by the way).




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post #204 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:35 PM
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Good points, and yes, Hendricks did win that fight, but 'abstraction' aside, when the bottom guys is hitting harder than the top guy, that should probably be taken into consideration as well .. if you take someone down, you should have to show a minimal level of control before we 'abstract' to far down the road

But in most cases, you are indeed right, a take down, if it's not worth anything, should then be easily avoided or nullified when it happens ... if it can't be then obviously it's a valid and effective fighting tactic and deserves to be respected as such.
No disrespect to Condit's bottom game, but Hendricks did spend most of that time in his half-guard. The judges will always score that in favor of the fighter on top. And it is correct that they do so.

Throwing strikes off your back is good for keeping up appearances. It's not that good for actually hurting your opponent.
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post #205 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hammerlock2.0 View Post
^Certain techniques from the bottom are banned as well and in BJJ the guard is considered a neutral position. In many points it can be considered the opposite of wrestling.
How much of the time spent on the ground was Hendricks in Condit's Guard? Not much. Also, this isn't BJJ.

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But this is MMA and the one thing that counts is damaging your opponentControl doesn't matter in real fights, damage does..
Wrong. "Effective striking, grappling, aggression and Octagon control." Ring a bell? And I just outlined why control has to be considered instead of damage.Hendricks had Condit in a front headlock, do you think we'd be having this discussion if he could just knee him in the head?

Quote:
I realize that these are the current rules of MMA but every sport has dumb rules and scoring top position as "control" and scoring control at all is an even dumber rule than intentional walks in baseball or that the ground can't cause a fumble in American football or every basketball rule ever (huge basketball fan by the way).
They both new the rules, they both train with these rules in mind. Suck it up.
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post #206 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 05:47 PM
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It's not wrestling or judo either, you can't score by pinning someone in MMA. And I doubt very much that there are judges in real fights or rounds so the rules of MMA don't count there either. In my mind MMA is supposed to be an emulation of a street fight. Obviously you have to have rules so it's fair and people see it as a sport but in the end the one thing that actually matters and matters above anything else is doing damage to your opponent.

And I'm pretty sure I said "in my little world" so I don't have to suck anything up, whatever that even means. I'm fully aware that my utopian MMA is not reality.




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post #207 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 06:15 PM
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Maybe Hendrix won and scored takedowns but he couldnt do anything on the ground COndit completely dominated him.

He did throw some good punches and bull rushes but Condit had a good share of good punches and knees so i would say Condit was better on the feet.

Condit was also much more agressive all the time.

Condit showed more heart, actually he completely won me as a fan with this fight.

Hendrix did execute some showman Matt Hughes style takedowns maybe that's why he impressed the judges so much ?

But i would give this fight to Condit all the way.
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post #208 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 06:25 PM
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Also what's up with Hendrixe's trainer yelling every move and thought he thinks Condit will make??
Is this a 1 v 1 or freaking 2 v 1 match???!!!

Dana White shut this mother facker up pleasee!!!
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post #209 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 08:30 PM
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In the first two rounds Hendricks was holding his own if not winning the standup. He was being the aggressor and was controlling every aspect of the fight(pace, where it took place etc). Without the takedowns they would have been close rounds. The takedowns were the icing on the cake, he used them to stay out of trouble and many of them were hard takedowns that should count as they would have done some damage. Once on the ground not a whole lot happened from either fighter, it isn't like Condit was getting any close submissions or beating Hendricks up from the bottom position.

It was an easy 2-1 round fight for Hendricks. I don't see how you could score it otherwise witout having a bias towards Condit.
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post #210 of 220 (permalink) Old 03-18-2013, 08:35 PM
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Watched the fight again.
According to the ten point system, Hendricks won a pretty clear 29-28.
However, I think if there wasn't a ten point must system and fights were judged as a whole, I would have given the fight to Condit.

Just my opinion.
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