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Old 03-21-2013, 11:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
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GSP did box and outbox the Nick the brat Diaz ... that is true and he landed a lot of good shots.... but too predictable for fighter of his skill and talent, he needs to mix those "new arsenal" weapons they show in buy-it-now promos...
Because it is either jab or superman punch!

There was interesting end of 2nd round i think Diaz landed some good shots it looked almost like he let it happen ... he did beat him up the time they boxed though ....

His defense was top notch like Gracie twins said.... all i m saying is i know he can offer more to the sport and fans , i m not happy with how he fights , not hating, just saying the truth.

He needs to spend some time with Wanderlei Silva too, take some risk GSP it is not all about winning.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by iksanivica View Post
GSP did box and outbox the Nick the brat Diaz ... that is true and he landed a lot of good shots.... but too predictable for fighter of his skill and talent, he needs to mix those "new arsenal" weapons they show in buy-it-now promos...
Because it is either jab or superman punch!

There was interesting end of 2nd round i think Diaz landed some good shots it looked almost like he let it happen ... he did beat him up the time they boxed though ....

His defense was top notch like Gracie twins said.... all i m saying is i know he can offer more to the sport and fans , i m not happy with how he fights , not hating, just saying the truth.

He needs to spend some time with Wanderlei Silva too, take some risk GSP it is not all about winning.
GSP doesn't have the chin to fight the way you and many others want him too. Why should he go all gun-ho and get KO'd? Is that somehow better? For who exactly?

As far as excitement goes, he is a little boring. But technically, he is superb... which totally negates the lack of excitement for me. I want GSP to keep fighting like he is. I used to think, like you, I wanted him to go a bit mad. but now I realize that GSP fighting like he does raises the bar as far as discipline goes, which in turn makes all other fighters better. We need guys like GSP, who may not have the natural tools of Anderson Silva... but works very hard and is the best fighter he can possibly be = A world class fighter.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #13 (permalink)
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iksanivica, I understand what you are saying, but I disagree.

Take Diaz for instance, he's very one dimensional and predictable when it comes to fighting style ... he walks forward, taking shots to his indestructible chin, while swinging away with long hooks to the body and head .. repeat until his opponent either collapses against the fence and he moves in for the stoppage by strikes, or if they fall in the middle of the ring, then hop on their back and submit them.

After you see that a few times it gets boring as well ... not a whole lot of skill exhibited really (and that's not saying he has no skill, just that he his skills are not all that diversified.) If it weren't for his thick skull, "girls hits" would actually be able to KO him, as he doesn't have any real striking defense.

Yet very few people recognize that he is not exhibiting any real MMA skills. He's basically using a form of 'stand up L&P" (using his one specific set skills, his own set of 'play it safe' set of skills, to try and prevent his opponents more diverse set of skills from becoming a factor in the fight.)

I really don't see how Diaz is playing it any less 'safe' than GSP .. he just has a different set of "safe plans" because he is built different than GSP .. Diaz has an indestructible chin, he can't be KO'd, so walking forward swinging widely with no striking defense is actually a pretty safe game plan for him, IF he can force that plan on to his opponent.

If that kind of fighter excites you, that's fine, but for me that gets pretty boring ... the only "excitement" is wondering if his opponent is stupid enough to fight Diaz's game, or will they fight a little bit smart, counter the "hook machine" and make Diaz fight a real MMA match.

That said, I'm not blaming Diaz for using that style, as like GSP, if someone wants to beat Diaz, then they need to deal with his style of fighting .. either fight better using the same style, or take him out of his style ... when a fighter goes up against someone with a winning style, and they either best that style, or better yet force them to fight out of their preferred style, then those are the fights I like.

While you may think that GSP fought safe, I look at it differently .. he fought Diaz whose winning game plan is to walk forward and strike until he wears out his opponent and gets the ref to stop the fight, or can hop on his opponents back and go for a sub ... GSP went in and countered both those strengths, he didn't do that by L&P, he did it by out boxing the boxer, and out JJing the JJ expert. Instead of allowing Diaz to play his "walk forward swinging game" he walked forward himself using his better speed and jabbing skills ... instead of allowing Diaz to execute his offensive GJJ skills on the ground GSP used better BJJ defensive skills to keep out of any sub attempts and get into gaurd for some decent G&P.

GSP did try a few times to go for Diaz's back, but Diaz is no slouch and countered those attempts and even a couple of times almost got himself in a position to attempt a sub .. so GSP was smart not to continue to attempt something risky from Diaz's back .. it wasn't working, and was getting him too close to being subed.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
GSP doesn't have the chin to fight the way you and many others want him too. Why should he go all gun-ho and get KO'd? Is that somehow better? For who exactly?

As far as excitement goes, he is a little boring. But technically, he is superb... which totally negates the lack of excitement for me. I want GSP to keep fighting like he is. I used to think, like you, I wanted him to go a bit mad. but now I realize that GSP fighting like he does raises the bar as far as discipline goes, which in turn makes all other fighters better. We need guys like GSP, who may not have the natural tools of Anderson Silva... but works very hard and is the best fighter he can possibly be = A world class fighter.
It all depends on your world view.

Have you ever seen star trek original series not this new crap?

There are warriors race called Klingons and they have this thing they call Honor and they would die for it. They live for the present moment and glory of the battle.

There is also another race Ferengi... ok lets not go that far i ll take Romulans for example, calculated, economical, yet with a sense of extreme caution, logic and emotion too but not too much of it ... to me that is GSP ... Wanderlei... all i can say is Khaless would be proud of you !
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Really good breakdown. I'd say I agree with their opinion but these guys are experts so i'm just gonna say I learned a lot from that video. Never knew about GSP's posture and positioning. Very impressive.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by iksanivica View Post
It all depends on your world view.

Have you ever seen star trek original series not this new crap?

There are warriors race called Klingons and they have this thing they call Honor and they would die for it. They live for the present moment and glory of the battle.

There is also another race Ferengi... ok lets not go that far i ll take Romulans for example, calculated, economical, yet with a sense of extreme caution, logic and emotion too but not too much of it ... to me that is GSP ... Wanderlei... all i can say is Khaless would be proud of you !
Yeah, but unless we want to start holding all the fights at the Colosseum in Rome, and give Dana a leafy crown and let him decide if the losing fighter lives or dies, then I think we have to accept that Khaless will just have to get used to being just a little bit ashamed.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NoYards View Post
Yeah, but unless we want to start holding all the fights at the Colosseum in Rome, and give Dana a leafy crown and let him decide if the losing fighter lives or dies, then I think we have to accept that Khaless will just have to get used to being just a little bit ashamed.
Khaless has eternal place in Stovokor he is a God and can not be ashamed.

Of course every fighter wants to play it safe it all depends what they want from the fight and many people want different things in a fight some for selfish other for less selfish reasons.

We could also talk about courage in this sense. We could talk about fears, desire to prosper, to make money, or to be a great fighter it is very different for each of them in that octagon,

Also don't forget one thing Wanderlei has been knocked the **** out many times in his career he has no iron chin and still fights for the sport, fans and for their love.

None of which iv seen in GSP.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #18 (permalink)
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One other thing .

GSP has not JJ-ed JJ expert Diaz because he has never attemnpted any JJ attack he used his Wrestling and "safe" athletic skills te stay from harms (bjj) way of Diaz.

It was sickening to watch him keep Diaz like a baby there... because he is a much stronger person physically and even with that big advantage he just kept wrestling from the safe distance.

Then when it would get interesting ocasionally on the standup where he was also superior in athletic and technical aspect ... just when it would get interesting ... he would jump back again into his little wrestling pond... and keep holding him there the same way.

He has not shown a fighter spirit that is for sure.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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He 'JJed" in the sense that he prevented JJ ... think of it as boxing .. keeping your hands up and good head movement is just as much a part of boxing as having a good jab, hook, and combos.

If I am in a boxing match with a great jabber, but I keep my hands up and he throws 500 jabs that all hit my arms, and I hit him with a few dozen hooks to the body ... I am boxing, and I win the match.

I'm not sure what you mean by "fighters spirit'? He's not a mindless fighter that will take big risks in order to overcome his opponent .. not when he has safer ways to go about overcoming him.

And by those same standards, then it is Nick who didn't have the 'fighters spirit' .. he was the one being obviously defeated, yet he was unwilling to take any risks in order to attempt to change the flow of the match.

"Fighting spirit" by your own description is to take chances, Nick took no more chances than GSP ... he tried to do what he always does; a strategy that is safe for him ... this time it failed, but he still played it 'safe" and was unwilling to risk more.

I think you're only looking at this fight from one perspective, believing that just because Nick likes using his stand up more, that this is some how 'taking risks' ... but it's not risky at all when the person doing the stand up is suppose to be unbeatable while standing up.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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iksanivica, I understand what you are saying, but I disagree.

Take Diaz for instance, he's very one dimensional and predictable when it comes to fighting style ... he walks forward, taking shots to his indestructible chin, while swinging away with long hooks to the body and head .. repeat until his opponent either collapses against the fence and he moves in for the stoppage by strikes, or if they fall in the middle of the ring, then hop on their back and submit them.

After you see that a few times it gets boring as well ... not a whole lot of skill exhibited really (and that's not saying he has no skill, just that he his skills are not all that diversified.) If it weren't for his thick skull, "girls hits" would actually be able to KO him, as he doesn't have any real striking defense.

Yet very few people recognize that he is not exhibiting any real MMA skills. He's basically using a form of 'stand up L&P" (using his one specific set skills, his own set of 'play it safe' set of skills, to try and prevent his opponents more diverse set of skills from becoming a factor in the fight.)

I really don't see how Diaz is playing it any less 'safe' than GSP .. he just has a different set of "safe plans" because he is built different than GSP .. Diaz has an indestructible chin, he can't be KO'd, so walking forward swinging widely with no striking defense is actually a pretty safe game plan for him, IF he can force that plan on to his opponent.

If that kind of fighter excites you, that's fine, but for me that gets pretty boring ... the only "excitement" is wondering if his opponent is stupid enough to fight Diaz's game, or will they fight a little bit smart, counter the "hook machine" and make Diaz fight a real MMA match.

That said, I'm not blaming Diaz for using that style, as like GSP, if someone wants to beat Diaz, then they need to deal with his style of fighting .. either fight better using the same style, or take him out of his style ... when a fighter goes up against someone with a winning style, and they either best that style, or better yet force them to fight out of their preferred style, then those are the fights I like.

While you may think that GSP fought safe, I look at it differently .. he fought Diaz whose winning game plan is to walk forward and strike until he wears out his opponent and gets the ref to stop the fight, or can hop on his opponents back and go for a sub ... GSP went in and countered both those strengths, he didn't do that by L&P, he did it by out boxing the boxer, and out JJing the JJ expert. Instead of allowing Diaz to play his "walk forward swinging game" he walked forward himself using his better speed and jabbing skills ... instead of allowing Diaz to execute his offensive GJJ skills on the ground GSP used better BJJ defensive skills to keep out of any sub attempts and get into gaurd for some decent G&P.

GSP did try a few times to go for Diaz's back, but Diaz is no slouch and countered those attempts and even a couple of times almost got himself in a position to attempt a sub .. so GSP was smart not to continue to attempt something risky from Diaz's back .. it wasn't working, and was getting him too close to being subed.
So by your definition Diaz tries to either KO/TKO an opponent or sub them using only his 'indestructible chin' in his one dimensional fighting style?

Diaz also lacks any 'MMA skills' despite stuffing some of GSP's TDs, not really getting dominated in the stand up and even you have said in that post that GSP was going for subs but Diaz was no slouch...

He also uses his 'stand up LnP' to try and nullify his opponents offence completely by using said chin, while at the same time trying to not put himself in any danger on his way to a decision win?

Seriously though Stand up LnP? The art of trading punches in the middle of the ring being compared as some form of LnP is just epic

Fighting just as safe as GSP by employing his own set of 'safe plans' with such defensive gems as getting hit in the face against KO artists such as Paul Daley? (before you say it I'm not condoning the guys actions after the bell against Kos but it's no secret he has a powerful left hook)

So a back and forward war is boring to you? As where a exhibition of how to employ top control while doing minimal damage is exciting?

Also I don't think jabbing then disengaging nearly the whole fight is considered 'out boxing the boxer' although he did what he had to do to neutralize Diaz's boxing. Key word and GSp's bread and butter 'Neutralize'

What I will say about the video that I didn't realise about GSP's top control is the 'all in or all out grappling' that avoids the danger zone for getting subbed is really smart and something I hadn't noticed before.
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