Nick Diaz "Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:09 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
You guys completely miss the whole point.

The question isn't did GSP weigh in at 170.9. What is anyone here saying that has much to do with that? The question is what were Montreal's rules beforehand, and did anything change to accommodation a fighter?

Everyone is so quick to try and make this a DIaz vs GSP fans dramafest. It is more about the legitimacy of the sport. If they just changed criteria to fit the fight and get away with it, then what happenes next? Or 5 years from now?

This is boxing type stuff. And people rip boxing when anything corrupt happens.
I'm a fan of both fighters, as you're well aware, and so I'm not looking to create any 'Diaz fan vs. GSP fan drama'. But there are plenty of people in this thread suggesting that GSP ought to give Nick 50% of his purse and that GSP is pampered when there is virtually zero evidence to suggest that GSP was having weight troubles.

I'm all for discussing Montreal's quirky rules and whether UFC tried to pull a fast one. But this thread has clearly headed the direction of 'GSP weighed heavy,' an accusation we have not one shred of evidence to support.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
I'm a fan of both fighters, as you're well aware, and so I'm not looking to create any 'Diaz fan vs. GSP fan drama'. But there are plenty of people in this thread suggesting that GSP ought to give Nick 50% of his purse and that GSP is pampered when there is virtually zero evidence to suggest that GSP was having weight troubles.

I'm all for discussing Montreal's quirky rules and whether UFC tried to pull a fast one. But this thread has clearly headed the direction of 'GSP weighed heavy,' an accusation we have not one shred of evidence to support.
I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:40 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sports_Nerd View Post
I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.
Chances are UFC did try to pull a fast one. But was it even acted upon? Did GSP make a legitimate 170 regardless of the loophole? Was there a panic wherein something fishy was said in confidence that ultimately never came to fruition? There are too many variables at play here.

If UFC tried to accommodate a fighter with 'new' rules, then I agree it's not right. You can't ask one fighter to make weight for a title fight at one event and then extend another some loophole at the next event. But I'm torn... had one fighter not made the 170 mark, this wouldn't have been a title fight... was this just the lesser of two evils? Would fans have been all for this deviation were it made openly and Nick was given more than an hour's notice? There's a lot to ask ourselves.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:53 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sports_Nerd View Post
I don't much about Montreal's rules, but I do know that the articles and video have been pulled. I think it's reasonable to assume that if this was the normal practice in Montreal, a statement to that effect would have been made, instead of an attempt to silence criticism.
The Video is still working on this site as of this post. Click the link to see it.

http://www.bjpenn.com/video-did-offi...-act-ufc-news/
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:53 PM   #45 (permalink)
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To be fair as much as rules are rules, it's just the weigh in and both fighters will be fighting well above the 170 limit anyway come fight night. Saying that it's 100% shady the way the whole situation was handled doesn't paint the sport in a positive light. The fact the ufc took down the video just makes it look worse.

As for NoYards speech about how Diaz should have been DQ offence for striking out after the bell. UFC rules state it is at the referee discretion. Also saying that changing a rule set in stone e.g. weigh in limits is the same as something that should be at the referees discretion is not the same no matter how you try and spin it...

As for the rules grabbing the fence/gloves/shorts is also in the same bracket of offence and you always see it happen at least twice before they get a warning.

@NoYards... Serious question do you just defend GSP till the death, or do you detest Diaz because of his unique form of 'stand up lay and pray'?
Okay, first, the weigh-in rules are NOT 'set in stone' .. I posted the rules which clearly allow the commission to make modifications to those rules, that's not "spinning", that's an 'advanced and complicated method of determining the facts' called "reading the rules" ... it allows a 'catch-weight', and while many people believe that a 'catch-weight' fight can not include a championship fight, there is no such rule .. it is 'traditional' not to do so, but if we are talking about rules, then you'll need to show me the rules that state this.

Second, I actually think it was the proper decision not to DQ Diaz, and the ref used the proper discretion ... just as the commission did in modifying the weigh in rules (IF they actually did that, and it actually came into play for either GSP or Diaz.) The point is not that all rules need to be strictly adhered to, the point is if you're going to whine about minor discrepancies in how you believe the rules should be adhered to, then let's talk about ALL the rules and how strict or lenient there are adhered to.

Third, I'll defend GSP when the argument against him is BS, as are 90% of the "boring fighter' arguments I've seen so far.

I'll admit to liking GSP more than Diaz. I don't play into all the 'anti-hereo' bullshite, Diaz is an anti-socoal punk, a whiner, and a bully, whose whole shtick is to 'break the rules' so so-called "rebels" can identify with his nonsense. I don't put up with people like him in my real life, and I see no need to support someone like him just because he's a UFC fighter.

If you feel GSPs fighting style is boring, that's fine, that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it whether it is based on solid evidence, emotional reactions, or ignorance of MMA ... but in case you haven't noticed, I don't just post a bunch of simple emotional opinions, I post data to back up my opinions and try to explain why I have those opinions (if you disagree with the 'facts' as, or how, I present them, then fine, present your own 'facts' and we can debate their validity and meaning, but don't simply ignore that I am posting actual data and claim it is just opinion) ... such as Diaz's 'stand up L&P' ... which I clearly explained as someone using a single technique they are very strong at in order to 'play safe' (ie: Diaz is usually under no more 'risk' using his 'walk forward with his iron chin stuck out in front of him until he can wear down his opponent', than GSP is using his TD and G&P technique. You may find Diaz doing the same thing over and over again exciting, and I may find GSP doing the same thing over and over again exciting .. but both fighters are basically doing the same thing .. doing what they are best at to limit risk (or as you would call it: "playing it safe".)
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:43 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Rules are rules when Diaz gets busted for "marijuana metabolites" but when it come to established weight guidelines for the poster boy....

Not only would the fight be a non-title fight but Diaz should have been entitled to a percentage of GSP purse.

Who cares about .9 lbs? NSAC the same people that care about banned substances etc. etc.

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Old 03-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by NoYards View Post
Okay, first, the weigh-in rules are NOT 'set in stone' .. I posted the rules which clearly allow the commission to make modifications to those rules, that's not "spinning", that's an 'advanced and complicated method of determining the facts' called "reading the rules" ... it allows a 'catch-weight', and while many people believe that a 'catch-weight' fight can not include a championship fight, there is no such rule .. it is 'traditional' not to do so, but if we are talking about rules, then you'll need to show me the rules that state this.

Second, I actually think it was the proper decision not to DQ Diaz, and the ref used the proper discretion ... just as the commission did in modifying the weigh in rules (IF they actually did that, and it actually came into play for either GSP or Diaz.) The point is not that all rules need to be strictly adhered to, the point is if you're going to whine about minor discrepancies in how you believe the rules should be adhered to, then let's talk about ALL the rules and how strict or lenient there are adhered to.

Third, I'll defend GSP when the argument against him is BS, as are 90% of the "boring fighter' arguments I've seen so far.

I'll admit to liking GSP more than Diaz. I don't play into all the 'anti-hereo' bullshite, Diaz is an anti-socoal punk, a whiner, and a bully, whose whole shtick is to 'break the rules' so so-called "rebels" can identify with his nonsense. I don't put up with people like him in my real life, and I see no need to support someone like him just because he's a UFC fighter.

If you feel GSPs fighting style is boring, that's fine, that is your opinion, and you are welcome to it whether it is based on solid evidence, emotional reactions, or ignorance of MMA ... but in case you haven't noticed, I don't just post a bunch of simple emotional opinions, I post data to back up my opinions and try to explain why I have those opinions (if you disagree with the 'facts' as, or how, I present them, then fine, present your own 'facts' and we can debate their validity and meaning, but don't simply ignore that I am posting actual data and claim it is just opinion) ... such as Diaz's 'stand up L&P' ... which I clearly explained as someone using a single technique they are very strong at in order to 'play safe' (ie: Diaz is usually under no more 'risk' using his 'walk forward with his iron chin stuck out in front of him until he can wear down his opponent', than GSP is using his TD and G&P technique. You may find Diaz doing the same thing over and over again exciting, and I may find GSP doing the same thing over and over again exciting .. but both fighters are basically doing the same thing .. doing what they are best at to limit risk (or as you would call it: "playing it safe".)

Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:

Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds

In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division.

Over 170 includes 170.1 so unless they are fighting for the MW title, yes the weigh in rules are set in stone... Only grey area I can see you clutching at is the first section I bolded, but in truth I can't see how a commission can just up the weight by a pound. For a giggle can you tell me how many catch weight TITLE fights there have been in the UFC to date?

Ignorance of MMA is comparing lay and pray to trying to walk through your opponents punches... Do I think GSP's fighting style is boring... Yes I do but more because he has the tools to finish or at least try and finish some of the opponents he has faced and chooses not to. I respect the skills he has in his arsenal I just think it's a shame he chooses not to use them... I just can't understand how you can compare a guy walking forward with his chin in the air as 'safe' in the same way as laying on top of an opponent avoiding nearly all chances to either submit or pass into full guard and GnP someone...

What happened to the biggest beating of Diaz's life we were meant to witness? If I had the time I'd post a picture of the damage a LW in the form of BJ Penn did in 3 rounds compared to the damage the WW champ GSP did in 5...

As for you not posting with emotion but only fact you sure seem heated to me

Last edited by sg160187 : 03-24-2013 at 12:20 AM. Reason: bold
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:21 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:00 AM   #49 (permalink)
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GSP cheating again...smh
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:35 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I've seen this crap on another site. Simple fact is, that if they didn't give GSP the extra time, Diaz wouldn't have been in a title fight. If anything, it was for Diaz's benefit that GSP be allowed extra time. It's not like if he missed weight, they'd just cancel the fight, it'd turn into a 5 round non-title fight. The extra time benefited Diaz more than GSP. At least the extra time gave Diaz the opportunity to fight for a title rather than be dominated in a 5 round non-title fight.
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