Nick Diaz "Off the Record" Rule Changes Emerge from UFC 158 Weigh-Ins - Page 7 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:50 PM   #61 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by AlexZ View Post
So if a "UFC employee came over" and decided to allow GSP to be 5 or 10 lbs over weight NSAC would let it fly..... seems legit

People need to stop justifying the fact that there was blatant favoritism and that it takes away from the integrity of the sport.
I think your missing the entire point. The UFC isnt the one allowing the extra .9 the Quebec Athletic Commission does not use decimals but merely rounds down. A UFC employee came over to Diaz to make sure he was aware that the AC did so because its not normal in other places like Nevada or California. Diaz can complain for not knowing it earlier but I would think it would be he and his teams responsiblity to understand the rules in the jusrisdiction they are fighting in. In good faith the UFC likely should have let him know sooner but regardless its not there call.

The UFC has practically zero power over the AC's, hell the Quebec one almost got the Leites/Silva card cancelled because they were gonna implement a rule were if a fighter was knocked down he got a standing 10 count like in boxing. It got voted down but they stated than that if the UFC wanted to do buisiness in Montreal they would have to abide by the rules they put forth. People need to understand to that Quebec as a province likes to do things there own way even if it seems some times like they are being different just for the sake of being different.

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Did you read sg160187 posts on the commissions guidelines for weight classes?

Common sense reveals Canadian favoritism.
What commissions guidelines are those because the province of Quebec has pretty much nothing in english anywhere. Those are the general unified rules from what I see and that means nothing considering athletic commissions can set what ever rules they want.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:06 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I think your missing the entire point. The UFC isnt the one allowing the extra .9 the Quebec Athletic Commission does not use decimals but merely rounds down. A UFC employee came over to Diaz to make sure he was aware that the AC did so because its not normal in other places like Nevada or California. Diaz can complain for not knowing it earlier but I would think it would be he and his teams responsiblity to understand the rules in the jusrisdiction they are fighting in. In good faith the UFC likely should have let him know sooner but regardless its not there call.
My problem is that there is no concrete evidence that the Canadian commission has implemented this .9 lbs allowance? Without evidence, it's probable the Canadian commission made it up for GSP's benefit.

Maybe someone could shed better light on it instead of sweeping it under the rug.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:06 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AlexZ View Post
Did you read sg160187 posts on the commissions guidelines for weight classes?

Common sense reveals Canadian favoritism.
Common sense suggests those are the guidelines for AC in the United States seeing as there is no source. Common sense also suggests that prior events in Montreal were held to the same standard as UFC 158.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:13 PM   #64 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by AlexZ View Post
My problem is that there is no concrete evidence that the Canadian commission has implemented this .9 lbs allowance? Without evidence, it's probable the Canadian commission made it up for GSP's benefit.

Maybe someone could shed better light on it instead of sweeping it under the rug.
Well I would think the fact that since the Quebec Commission actually came up with a set of rules for MMA, (just before Silva/Leites,(long story involving an event with a riot the week before). ) Every single UFC event held in Montreal has no decimals in any of the official weigh in results. It was something that nobody has likely picked up till now but at the same time both GSP and Thales Leites have come in at the respective limits (GSP 170, Leites 185). The odds of hitting the weight that bang on for a title fight seem absurd so I am gonna come to the only logical conclusion that this has been in effect since then. the difficult thing for guys like Diaz and Condit though would be that as its in Quebec and government it likely is all printed in French and made as difficult as possible for english speakers.. Its unlikely that most people who fight there would be aware of this because of that.

Seriously go back and watch every weigh in for a UFC event in Montral since then and you won't find a single decimal place.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:58 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:42 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Yea that's the only grey area atm, I'm trying to find out if this excludes title fights. My reasoning behind it is Travis Lutter failed to make weight by 1.5 pounds for a UFC title fight and it was changed to a 3 round non title fight for this reason. Weird how the commission would allow it for the GSP fight but not the Lutter fight

Commissions may also approve catch weight bouts, subject to their review and discretion. For example, the Commission may still decide to allow the contest if it feels that the contest would still be fair, safe and competitive if a set catch weight is set in advance at 163 pounds, for example.

Catchweight has to be agreed by both parties involved in advance at the very least, so I can't see how telling the Diaz camp in a shady way just to 'keep them in the loop' follows suit with this.

The only thing I can find about catchweight specifically stating about title fights is on wiki and is jumbled in between boxing and mma so how much truth there is in it is always debatable...

Combat sports commonly have defined weight classes with specific weight limits. For example, each boxing division with the exception of heavyweight has its own limits for weight classes, ranging from 105 pounds for minimum weight to 200 pounds for cruiserweight and varying in range in the weight classes in between. In order to fight for a championship in these weight classes the fighters must come in to the fight at or below said weight.

Saying that I'm not saying GSP didn't make weight just that it was shady the way the whole situation was dealt with.
There's nothing shady about it. I bolded the the first part for a reason. They turned the Lutter fight into a non-title fight. That's exactly what woulda happened if GSP didn't make weight. Diaz would've been dominated for 5 rounds in a non-title fight rather than a title fight. Remember back in the day when..., I think it was Paulo Filho, the WEC champ missed weight against challenger Chael Sonnen? Yeah, the champ missed weight, and Chael won, but didn't win the title because the champ missing weight changed it to a non-title fight. That's why Diaz is the only one that had anything to gain from GSP getting extra time. If anything, despite Diaz not having anything to do with it, the whole thing is shady in Diaz's favor.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:07 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Except with the approval of the Commission, or its executive director, the classes for mixed martial arts contests or exhibitions and the weights for each class shall be:

Welterweight over 155 to 170 pounds
Middleweight over 170 to 185 pounds

In non-championship fights, there shall be allowed a 1 pound weigh allowance. In championship fights, the participants must weigh no more than that permitted for the relevant weight division.

Over 170 includes 170.1 so unless they are fighting for the MW title, yes the weigh in rules are set in stone... Only grey area I can see you clutching at is the first section I bolded, but in truth I can't see how a commission can just up the weight by a pound. For a giggle can you tell me how many catch weight TITLE fights there have been in the UFC to date?

Ignorance of MMA is comparing lay and pray to trying to walk through your opponents punches... Do I think GSP's fighting style is boring... Yes I do but more because he has the tools to finish or at least try and finish some of the opponents he has faced and chooses not to. I respect the skills he has in his arsenal I just think it's a shame he chooses not to use them... I just can't understand how you can compare a guy walking forward with his chin in the air as 'safe' in the same way as laying on top of an opponent avoiding nearly all chances to either submit or pass into full guard and GnP someone...

What happened to the biggest beating of Diaz's life we were meant to witness? If I had the time I'd post a picture of the damage a LW in the form of BJ Penn did in 3 rounds compared to the damage the WW champ GSP did in 5...

As for you not posting with emotion but only fact you sure seem heated to me
Wow, you sure do go through an awful lot of effort to miss a point, don't you?

Ok, let's look at the basics first.

a 170 lb requirement with a 1 lbs allowance for non title fights, and a 'strict' 170 lbs requirement for title fights.

First, the paragraphs right after that one you provided (which you omitted for obvious reasons as it doesn't suit your argument) clearly spells out legal variations to this rule. And it doesn't say that these variations only apply to non-title fights. The only stipulation is that the fight must still result in a fair ans safe match .. there is no requirement for the fighters to both agree before hand (of course, when the catch weight is something like 5 or 10 lbs between fighters that normally are in different weight classes, and is set up months n advance, the fighters are going to be involved in that, but if the difference is withing a few 10ths of a pound then the commission, the commission that looks after the jurisdiction the fight will be held, which can have different rules than other commissions in other jurisdictions, can make their own determination.

Now, even assuming that the commission is not allowed to adjust the rules for "catch weight" without the fighters agreement, if the Quebec commission does indeed just round down to the closest lbs, then there is still no issue with the rules even assuming GSP came in at 170.9

If the fighters are fighting in a jurisdiction where that commission has a different weigh in requirement, say one where they rounded down to the nearest 1/10th of a lbs, then 170.2 would be a violation in that jurisdiction, and the fighters and their teams would be responsible for knowing and adhering to those rules.

Lets take the case of two WW fighters; Fighter "A" fighting a championship match, and fighter "B" fighting a regular match.

Fighter "A" weights in at 170.9 and is officially listed at 170 .... Fighter "B" weighs in at 171.9 and is officially listed at 171 .... both fighters make weight, and the rules above are strictly adhered to for everyone without any requirement for a 'catch weight' ruling.

Oh sure, they don't follow your opinion of the weigh in rules, where there is no allowance given at all, but fortunately, you are not on any commission, so your opinion on how the rules should or should not work do not come into play.

Now, let's actually look at the weight ins shall we?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLzCY4Cqi2E.

If you bothered to watch them, then you might have noticed that not a single fighter weighted in at anything other than an 'even'(integer) weight ... no 169.5 lbs, no 170.5 weights, no weight at all that was anything other than an exact XXX.0 lbs ... so, since those are obviously the rules (round down to the nearest lbs) that this commission operates under, then that is the weight rules that the fighters have to live with.

If Diaz and his team are unaware of the rules they are fighting under, whose fault is that?

Now, you may want to think that this is changing the rules for a 'giggle' ... but these are the rules under which they run their commission, if they want to ignore the fractional portion of weight, then they ignore the fractional portion of the weight. It's their commission in their jurisdiction and if they want to make the fighters wear pink tutus, then if the fighters want to fight, that's what they will wear ... heck, being a commission in a country that doesn't cling to old archaic weight measurements, they could actually require a weight in Kilos, and round up or down to the nearest 1/2 kilo and your "opinion" would do nothing to change the rules.

It's also interesting to note that in Boxing, the 'catch weight' can indeed be used for championship matches, so I see no reason that it could not also be allowed in MMA since they have adopted much of the same set of rules.

As for the rest of your nonsense, if you're too thick to understand the simple rules when they are spelled out for you in black and white, then I have no problem imagining how you "can't understand" the standing 'L&P" reference, or how Diaz could be fighting 'safe' by using the same techniques all the time (even unwilling to change up and take risks when he was obviously way down on points ... unwilling to take risks when losing is the very definition of 'playing it safe' .. where 'playing it safe' when obviously way ahead on points could at least have the advantage of being considered 'playing it smart' as well as 'playing it safe'.)
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:29 AM   #68 (permalink)
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The simple answer here is common sense... The Athletic Commission in this area has always rounded weights since the Matt Serra v. Georges fight. In the video, it was an employee of the UFC talking to Nicks camp, making sure they were aware of the rules, not the AC letting Nicks camp know there was a change in the rules.

Every AC is allowed to adopt their own rules. They do not have to follow the unified rules at all. Its up to the UFC to decide if they want to hold an event where a commission sets rules that are too far removed from the unified rules.

All rules that have been quoted in this thread so far have been from the unified rules or the NSAC set of rules, which have NOTHING to do with this fight or any fight that has ever been held there.

There was no favoritism, the only similarity to favoritism is the rules are published in French, so GSP could certainly have a better grasp of the rules than a non-french speaker. But the same could be said about rules being published in English giving the non-English speaker a disadvantage here in the USA.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:36 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:47 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Fun fact - sense isn't common, and so the term 'common sense' is a flawed one.

It's simply 'sense'... people lack 'sense'... the more you know
Okay then....

The simple answer here is sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts...
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