Korean Zombie' compares GSP's UFC 158 Japanese 'Rising Sun Flag' gi to Nazi swastika - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Symbolism is, and always will be subjective. Regarding the Swastika; it had a completely different meaning until Hitler corrupted it. The whole 'I'm offended attitude' had gone over the cliff long ago. Too the point where I can't even take it remotely serious anymore. Usually it is not even the people directly affected doing the complaining. It is people complaining for them.

If he was the Chinese Zombie I could understand his position a lot more.

Either way...this is just silly and overly redundant. Offended? Look away.
I thought Korea suffered quite a bit under the hand of imperial Japan around WWII as well.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
To someone living in Korea or Chine this symbol could be just as offensive. To them this flag represents an imperial nation that conquered and enslaved people with extremely negative political and social policies toward the countries dominated.

It may not be as offensive to as many people, but to certain people it could be considered just as offensive.
The difference is that most of the known world appreciates what a swastika has come to represent. I'm willing to bet that GSP associates the 'Rising Sun' entirely with martial arts/The Karate Kid. As would many North Americans. As I said, I presume most things could be construed as offensive by people all over the world, so to what lengths do we go to censor ourselves so that no one's feelings are hurt?

The fact that so many here were clueless as to the precise history of this symbol shows that it has an entirely different meaning from one continent to the next. Are we to automatically label ourselves ignorant and incorrect simply because groups that have undergone hardship don't approve? Why can't a symbol have multiple meanings?

As I said, I respect Korean Zombie for being so respectful. He's simply trying to shed some light on the subject matter. But I don't think this is anywhere near comparable to walking into an arena wearing a swastika on your Gi.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
To someone living in Korea or Chine this symbol could be just as offensive. To them this flag represents an imperial nation that conquered and enslaved people with extremely negative political and social policies toward the countries dominated.

It may not be as offensive to as many people, but to certain people it could be considered just as offensive.
I understand that, and he wouldn't have wrote the letter had he not been offended by it.

But this isn't GSP having a fight in Korea wearing the GI, where I could understand the outrage it would cause.

It was a fight in Canada, where the symbol is not deemed offensive. In fact I'd wager it's not an offensive symbol in most of the worlds countries.

Respect is a two way street. Just because one or two nations find a symbol offensive doesn't mean the rest of the world has to ban it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
The difference is that most of the known world appreciates what a swastika has come to represent. I'm willing to bet that GSP associates the 'Rising Sun' entirely with martial arts/The Karate Kid. As would many North Americans. As I said, I presume most things could be construed as offensive by people all over the world, so to what lengths do we go to censor ourselves so that no one's feelings are hurt?

The fact that so many here were clueless as to the precise history of this symbol shows that it has an entirely different meaning from one continent to the next. Are we to automatically label ourselves ignorant and incorrect simply because groups that have undergone hardship don't approve? Why can't a symbol have multiple meanings?

As I said, I respect Korean Zombie for being so respectful. He's simply trying to shed some light on the subject matter. But I don't think this is anywhere near comparable to walking into an arena wearing a swastika on your Gi.
Some very valid points here. I agree the big difference is that most people do not know that is an offensive symbol, so you couldn't blame someone for wearing it in the same way you could blame someone for wearing a swastika.

That being said, I don't think this is an issue of being overly politically correct, just of people being educated. No one can really say they are being censored if they can't wear a rising sun shirt. Unless of course they can explain what it represents to them and why people should not assume he/she is a fan war crimes. Like you said the KZ explained his point respectfully, and I assume it will be received the same way.

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I understand that, and he wouldn't have wrote the letter had he not been offended by it.

But this isn't GSP having a fight in Korea wearing the GI, where I could understand the outrage it would cause.

It was a fight in Canada, where the symbol is not deemed offensive. In fact I'd wager it's not an offensive symbol in most of the worlds countries.

Respect is a two way street. Just because one or two nations find a symbol offensive doesn't mean the rest of the world has to ban it.
They certainly don't have to ban it but I would ask why anyone would feel the need to wear a symbol such as that knowing what it represents to millions of people. If there is no positive association with the symbol then why antagonize people. This is all assuming the wearer understands the meaning of course.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
I was hoping this 'story' would go unnoticed. Fair play to Korean Zombie for being respectful, but the symbol obviously means something entirely different to GSP (we all know how much he respects martial arts), and Hayabusa sponsors many UFC and other fighters. Frankly, I'm certain everything under the sun could be construed as offensive by people the world over. The 'Rising Sun' symbol means many things to many people. What might represent war crimes in one area of the world clearly represents martial arts in another - why should either side be made to conform to the views of the other?

And the swastika comparison is ridiculous. This isn't a case of some skinhead marching around with a swastika tattooed on his forehead. It's a man who covets martial arts wearing a symbol representative of martial arts.

That said, I'm not Korean. I can't appreciate what the symbol means to some. But I'm also open minded enough to know that some views and representations don't translate across continents.
I'm pretty sure it had a different (nonoffensive) meaning for St. Pierre or maybe even not much of a meaning at all besides just being the design on his sponsored Gi. But Korean Zombie is right here, in most parts of East and South East Asia the rising sung flag is somewhat comparable to the swastika flag for Western countries. It's not that much a question of open mindedness, because it's not just some made up design that by coincidence looks the same as the flag under which so many war crimes were done, but it refers directly to Japanese combat culture. It's not like some Tibetan Buddhist monastries that happen to be decorated with "sun crosses" which happen to look like the swastika by the German Nazis, but more like a clothing company imitating Wehrmacht clothing style and decorating the clothes with swastika. Even if that clothing company does not intent to be offensive, it would leave quite a bad taste. Koeran Zombie said that he fully understands that St. Pierre wants to show his connection to Japanese martial arts and neither the modern day Japanese flag on his head band nor the Japanese writings offend them, it's just the "rising sun flag".

I absolutely think that St. Pierre was just not aware about its historical meaning, but being educated on the issue now I would expect from him to ask his sponsor to give him some other design, so he doesn't risk possibly offending about 1/3 of the world population.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ape City View Post
They certainly don't have to ban it but I would ask why anyone would feel the need to wear a symbol such as that knowing what it represents to millions of people. If there is no positive association with the symbol then why antagonize people. This is all assuming the wearer understands the meaning of course.
I agree, GSP being the all round nice guy that he is will most likely change it.

Besides, I'm sure none of the top brass in the UFC are aware of its meaning either. You can bet they don't want to upset the Asian market.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The difference is that most of the known world appreciates what a swastika has come to represent.
Actually not really. It's really more comparable than you think. The appreciation of what the swastika represents in the Western world is somewhat similar to what the rising sun flag represents in Asia AND vice versa. The swastika does NOT necessarily have the negative image in many parts of Asia as it has in Western countries (on the contrary it may even have a positive image as it is also a symbol commonly used in Buddhism). The difference in the association connected to the respective symbols comes from the fact that big parts of the Western world suffered under the Nazis while Asia did not, and on the other hand a big part of Asia suffered under imperial Japan while the Western world did not. It's a matter of education. Of course every part of the world educates its people more on what actually concerns/concerned that specific part of the world (just look a your daily news and think about how much you really get to now about what happens in the rest of the world). That's just normal. The problem is just that if someone operates or is perceived globally he should rise his awareness on how to avoid problems.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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ugh korean zombie why did you have to open your mouth like this when i'm a big fan of yours, oh well still a fan but not of these types of stupid issues being raised.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Plenty of symbols etc. have more than 1 meaning, and may offend some while others revere them for totally different reasons. Shouldn't be a big deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
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