Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho
Eh, you have to consider context. Sonnen came in and tore through the MW division as it then was. Okami and Marquardt were considered top dogs back then, and so it doesn't really matter where they are now. Okami was a perennial top five and Nate was one win away from a title shot. Context is everything. I don't come in here and belittle Chuck Liddell or Rich Franklin's title reigns because they came at a time where the division were about as stacked as Olive Oil. Chael beat every top MW not named Anderson Silva at the time - who fights in the division currently is irrelevant, as Sonnen is no longer a MW.
As for who beats whom, it's all speculative and subjective. I think Sonnen hands Vitor his own arse without much issue, and I'm not at all sold on Rockhold. Chael would likely wrestle-mual both. Jacare could prove interesting with his submissions. And I reserve judgment on Weidman... being that he and Sonnen are unlikely to ever fight, I'll only be able to compare their respective performances against Anderson.
As for being subbed by Maia, we're also talking about the Demian Maia who had everyone at MW terrified before Anderson stole his soul. Maia's currently back in that frame of mind and remembers what a grappling phenomenon he is, and he's tearing through everyone. I don't see a loss to Maia as shameful, which is how you make it sound. Should Jon Fitch be ashamed? Should Stun Gun be ashamed? It isn't as though Chael was submitted by Ed Herman. You can suffer a few losses to top guys and still be a good fighter yourself.
And he wasn't dominant at MW. He made Marquardt and Okami mentally fold underneath him. He made Brian Stann look like a rookie. He did have some trouble with Mike, but let's be real about this - the only round in that entire fight that could be declared a clear round for either man went to Sonnen in the third, in which he took Bisping down and kicked his arse the entire time. That Bisping hasn't earned himself a 'top victory' but managed to give Sonnen some problems shouldn't be a knock against Sonnen. Perhaps the stars aligned and Mike had a fantastic night. Perhaps Chael was off and had a bad night. These fighters are employees like you and I... we have our good days and our bad days, and so too can they.
As for LHW, chances are there are a few who could beat the snot out of Sonnen - I'm thinking of guys like Glover in particular. But I also think Chael would have little trouble outwrestling the likes of Rampage, Shogun, Wand, Vitor, Henderson, and even Mousasi and Machida. We're not talking about a scrub, and as I said, losing to Anderson Silva doesn't negate that skills and traits he does possess. I find it hilarious that so many people dismiss Silva's past opponents as overrated - I guess Anderson must not be the GOAT, because apparently he's only been fighting overly hyped bums.
Sonnen gets credit because he's earned it. He'd not be in this position through smack talk alone. Matt Riddle talks smack, and look at where he is.
Man you are really spinning the shit out of it to make it look as good as possible for your boy. It's insane how overrated he is. Maia had not beat a single ranked fighter before he fought Chael and he wasn't seen as some beast. Sure he wasn't a scrub at any point I'm not trying to say he was. But he got KTFO by Nate the very next fight and he only got his title fight because Vitor had to pull out. Maia was on a 1 fight win streak when Anderson "took his soul". Beating Maia at any weight is a good win for anyone. But it just blows back in your face when you say Chael beat all MW not named Anderson when he got dominated by Maia.
I said Chael had some quality wins, but he was far from cleaning out the division. If he was still fighting at MW there are plenty of guys still there that could beat Sonnen. There are a handful of guys that I'm very confident would beat Chael at MW and I think it's insane to suggest he would be able to hold down guys like Machida, Vitor or even Shogun before he got his melon blasted off.
This guy is so overrated it makes me sick and I haven't seen a single thing in the cage that would suggest he deserves that kind of respect. Forget his annoying mouth, his in the cage performances do not warrant the kind of love he gets as a fighter. It's just unreal. 5th best MW, not even 20th best LHW.