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Old 04-16-2013, 06:11 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Although 1-2 probably did land to the back of the head, I think the main question is (and should always be) were they intentional? I don't think so.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:23 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It looked irresponsible from Browne at least.
Plus. If a fighter is kicked in the nuts and can't continue to fight it shoud be what? At least a no contest. So if two of those devastating elbows did hit "accidentally" the back of the head of Gonzaga, a no contest should be declared ,again, at least.
"Looked irresponsible"? It's the ref's job to protect the fighter if he can't protect himself. The fighter is to fight until told to stop or the bell rings.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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"Looked irresponsible"? It's the ref's job to protect the fighter if he can't protect himself. The fighter is to fight until told to stop or the bell rings.
So if the referee doesn't do his job properly it is OK to kick nuts, poke eyes, bite ears off? The fighter has no responsibility to keep it safe and within the rules? What is that you are saying?
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:57 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Yeah the first 2 looked legal to me the rest looked pretty damn illegal.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:09 AM   #35 (permalink)
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All those shots were legal.

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Old 04-17-2013, 01:26 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I think Big Jhon described the back off the head as being the line where you wear headphones. Which seems very fair and simple. In that case those shots look very illegal to me.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:56 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I think Big Jhon described the back off the head as being the line where you wear headphones. Which seems very fair and simple. In that case those shots look very illegal to me.
I think ref's and commissions need to show some leniency though, I mean when Junior knocked out Cain it was right behind the ear which, if we use big John's definition would've been to the back of the head. I agree there should be a more definitive way to call it but I don't think the head-phone analogy is 100% the way to go.

It happens a lot in this sport, sometimes purposefully but more often then not it's completely unintentional and I think the most important things to try and distinguish are things like: were the shots intentional? Did the recipient of the shots move his head in such a way the shot was unavoidable?

I think a bit of discretion needs to be used in these cases, it's a fight and sometimes stuff like this is just unavoidable. You're trying to hit the other guy in the head as hard as you can and as a consequence sometimes you miss.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:38 AM   #38 (permalink)
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5 and possibly 6 looked illegal, both due to the 12-6 rule and the no shots to the back of the head rule. Others looked fine.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:06 PM   #39 (permalink)
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The third elbow started dropping him and it was located above the ear (but not in the 'mowhawk section'. The 4th elbow completely put him out. If you watch the gifs, Gonzaga slumped over causing the angle of his head to change, causing an off angle attack.
So much bullshit here.

Gonzaga NEVER slumped over, watch the tape again. Travis threw the 4th KO elbow(the one that caused referee to stop the fight btw) intentionally to the back of head and if he was not on DMT or some other mind altering drug - i would say he was aware of the fact that he is shooting to the back of head.

This elbow knocked gonzaga Out. The thing is if intentional, ilegal(12/6+ BOH) elbow KOed Gonzaga out and referee stopped the fight.. because of that KO.... then the victory is ILEGAL as well. PERIOD.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:17 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I think ref's and commissions need to show some leniency though, I mean when Junior knocked out Cain it was right behind the ear which, if we use big John's definition would've been to the back of the head. I agree there should be a more definitive way to call it but I don't think the head-phone analogy is 100% the way to go.

It happens a lot in this sport, sometimes purposefully but more often then not it's completely unintentional and I think the most important things to try and distinguish are things like: were the shots intentional? Did the recipient of the shots move his head in such a way the shot was unavoidable?
Perfectly avoidable... Is fighter eager to KO his opponent any way possible? YES. Is it avoidable to strike ilegally and possible to control yourself and respect the rules? YES it is.

It would be unavoidable if Gonzaga's head suddenly changed motion but this did not happen, watch the tape.

Gonzaga was far from energetic and movable at that moment...
and Travis had all the time in the world to see where his final elbow strike is going ...(the elbow that caused KO and made referee stop the fight)....

So in my judgment I would say it is an ilegal victory and Gonzaga deserves a completely new match.

It all seems to happen so fast i know but it is not fast in the octagon subjective perception of time slows down so keep that in mind too.

What worries me is that Travis had a feeling, a hunch or perhaps even a concious thought...that this would go unpunished.

It's the "I had to kill him!!" syndrome i m afraid.
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