The aspect of Jon Jones you are questioning isn't how good of a fighter he is, you're questioning his fortitude.
I'm questioning the quality of his competition. Once again, I don't doubt that Jones is a great fighter, but the fact is the LHW division is in really sad shape and a lot of the guys he's fought don't even belong there.
True that Jones hasn't been tested, but that is an indication of dominance. He's fought a bunch of top ten guys and they didn't stand a chance. He makes the division look weak because he's so dominant.
He makes the division look weak because it is
weak and he's one of the very few legit LHWs in his prime.
the problem here is two-fold;
first of all if you look through the mma rankings for LHW (globally) there are very few guys reaching their prime that would ever be legitimate contenders. Shogun, Rampage, Chael Sonnen all these guys are far past their prime. Other weight classes have a lot of younger contenders that actually pose a threat but at LHW the field is extremely thin in terms of young up and coming contenders, realistically we have Gustaffson and that's it. So Jones is going to be getting spoonfed over the hill guys or fighters that don't belong at LHW. There is no antithesis to Jones, there is no Rory Mcdonald, there is no Anthony Pettis, no Chris Weidman to challenge Jones. Jones could realistically stay champ for a decade because the LHW division is going through a generational change and there's only one guy that's a legit contender.
second of all Jones is a monster of a fighter, he is extremely skilled, very tough and extremely physically gifted. He's made every one of his opponents look like amateurs.
So you get a compounded issue where Jones is extremely talented, physically gifted and reaching his prime in a division of virtually no legitimate young contenders. So we won't really know how good he is for a while until he actually fights a young guy like himself that is peaking. Guys like Phil Davis are perennial gatekeepers even if the division was thin so Jones gets the best of both cases.
Yes, that's pretty much what I've been saying this whole time. You've summed it up nicely.
really? which elite welterweight not named hughes has gsp finished?
What does finishing have to do with anything? GSP does not have natural knockout power, and everyone knows he has been much more conservative since the Serra loss. He isn't a finisher. Nonetheless, he's thoroughly dominated every opponent, many of whom are/were legit.
Let's look at it this way. Most people downplay GSP's second win over Penn -- and for good reason, it was somewhat of a mismatch -- yet at least Penn at the time was the champ, motivated, in his prime, the former champ of that division and on a huge tear. Not even the MWs Jones has faced have had all of that going for them. For crying out loud, Chael was coming off a decisive loss and hadn't even competed at LHW in 6 years. He was never even very successful there, let alone a former champ. Vitor also hadn't competed there in 6 years and came in on short notice with a broken hand. Just think about how absurd that is. You won't see that kind of thing in a competitive division.
How dominant do you think GSP would look against a Diego Sanchez, or Penn for a third time? He might even get some more finishes. It's difficult to even make a comparison, because equivalent guys to Rampage or Shogun don't even exist in the WW division anymore, nevermind in the title hunt.
And who has aldo really beat other than faber and edgar.
Everyone who has challenged him. Granted, that division is still young, but at least none of those guys were out of shape 40 year old bantamweights with multiple nagging injuries and a serious lack of cardio. Mendes, Florian and Edgar were all legit wins. Especially Edgar.
Threads like this are always weird to read. It's crazy how so many MMA fans are so big into retroactively discrediting the losers of a fight so they don't have to praise the winners.
Well firstly, considering my join date and relative post count, I think it would be a stretch to say I'm big on it. And like I said, it isn't retroactive. This has been on my mind for quite some time. Literally every single Jones fight I've been thinking to myself "Too bad he's a middleweight" or "Well, it might have been competitive 6 years ago...". As I've said, I'm not trying to drag Jones through the mud. I don't really have any personal issues with him. I just thought this was an interesting topic for discussion. I'm not sure why so many people react with so much blatant hostility, foaming at the mouth and flinging insults every which way, but I suppose that is par for the course on the internet.
Despite all that, I've still yet to see a single solid argument against my assertion.
Before Jon Jones won the title, Shogun, Rampage, Rashad and Lyoto regularly made top 10 P4P lists. And I don't mean years before Jones won the title, I mean within a few months of it. Jones smashes them and they're tomato cans.
I don't recall Rampage being on any top p4p lists. That being said, the reason for the others is simple. They were big names with good streaks, and most people didn't know any better at the time. Thankfully, it should be much more obvious to people now just how impressive Rashad beating Forrest for the title was. Most of those names were rated higher than they should have been simply because they were household names people liked to cheer for, and because even then the division was too shallow to properly measure their overall relevance. That's a whole other discussion, though.