Illegal elbow rocked Chael - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #31 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iuanes View Post
Dont know what the OP is on about. Jones forearm is parallel to the ground when he its, he`s not spiking with the tip of the elbow.

Next issue to save Chael please.
The correct word would be perpendicular to the ground and as such means he was delivering a 12 to 6 elbow strike which is illegal as far as I know. Considering Chael hasn't demanded a rematch ala Nick Dickass those elbows must have not been ruled illegal or they had no effect on the outcome of the fight. As I know I will be, correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #32 of 65 (permalink) Old 04-30-2013, 02:24 AM
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The first time I watched the fight, it looked pretty legal to me. But now that I've seen it more times, it's definitely illegal.

But who cares, he would've lost anyway

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post #33 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 04:12 AM
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post #34 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 04:55 AM
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Just checking in to say that I changed my mind, it does look like a 12-6 elbow in the picture AlphaDawg posted. Didn't see it live, didn't see it in the gif but when his elbow touches Chael's head his arm is vertical and his fist is up in the air. Nice catch.




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post #35 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Added the picture to the OP so people know which elbow I'm talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kney View Post
The first time I watched the fight, it looked pretty legal to me. But now that I've seen it more times, it's definitely illegal.

But who cares, he would've lost anyway
Well not necessarily. You'd have to think the fight would be stopped if the doctor checked out Jones' toe. If Jones didn't land the elbow, Chael might've survived till the second. He could be champ right now. Granted an illegitimate champ, but a champ nonetheless.

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post #36 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 08:55 AM
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The pic shows the end of that elbow and I guess it looks like 12-6 but that is not where it started from. It came from his side and across, not from over his head.


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post #37 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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The pic shows the end of that elbow and I guess it looks like 12-6 but that is not where it started from. It came from his side and across, not from over his head.
I'm not seeing any sideways movement. All I see is forward and vertical.

And although he may not have lifted his elbow over his head, I feel like it has the same movement overall. Just less blatant as the Hamill one.

EDIT:

Official Rule

Quote:
Striking downward using the point of the elbow. All elbow strikes are legal except for an elbow that is thrown in a downward trajectory (hand traveling from 12 o’clock to 6 o’clock). Any elbow thrown with an arc is a legal elbow. The point of the elbow may be used as striking instrument as well as the forearm or the tricep area of the arm.”
His hand is traveling from 12-6, there is no arc and only the point of the elbow lands.

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post #38 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDawg View Post
I'm not seeing any sideways movement. All I see is forward and vertical.

And although he may not have lifted his elbow over his head, I feel like it has the same movement overall. Just less blatant as the Hamill one.

EDIT:

Official Rule



His hand is traveling from 12-6, there is no arc and only the point of the elbow lands.

I'm not saying this is the case with this fight... but what if the arm starts perpendicular to 12-6 but actually contacts in a vertical position.... that would more be like 3-6 because the arm started in a horizontal position.

As I'm reading the rule, it doesn't talk about the angle of the elbow only when it contacts, but more the travel of the elbow when it's thrown. So could one surmise that you could start with a horizontal elbow and finish the strike vertically?
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post #39 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
As I'm reading the rule, it doesn't talk about the angle of the elbow only when it contacts, but more the travel of the elbow when it's thrown. So could one surmise that you could start with a horizontal elbow and finish the strike vertically?
It's certainly possible. Osmium made a similar point earlier in the thread. The rule isn't specific enough in that regard so it's hard to say.

The way I see it, he started with forward motion, sort of 3-6 like you said, and made his way to 12-6. So although the strike began differently, it ultimately ended as a 12-6. In my opinion, that's enough to make it illegal.

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post #40 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-01-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by AlphaDawg View Post
It's certainly possible. Osmium made a similar point earlier in the thread. The rule isn't specific enough in that regard so it's hard to say.

The way I see it, he started with forward motion, sort of 3-6 like you said, and made his way to 12-6. So although the strike began differently, it ultimately ended as a 12-6. In my opinion, that's enough to make it illegal.
In my interpretation of the 12-6 elbow rule; what they are attempting to do is to reduce the amount of power generated by the elbow strike.

To start with a vertical arm and drive it directly downwards, you can create a ridiculous amount of force. So while a "3-6" elbow ends in the same orientation as the 12-6 elbow, it's going to dramatically reduce the amount of energy you can deliver with the strike because you are changing the angle of attack mid throw.

That's why I only see true 12-6 elbows (like the hamill fight) as the illegal blow.
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