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Old 04-30-2013, 04:30 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
Anderson and GSP in the same frame? Shit dude think about Nick Diaz who has a much worse frame than GSP stuffing all those TDs in the 3rd. If that was a guy of Anderson's ability, the fight would have been finished in that round.
To be fair, St. Pierre fought with the flu and an injured achilles. Let's be honest... we've not seen him gas in a fight like that before. If Anderson can get a pass for injured ribs, then I'm cutting GSP some slack for the Diaz fight, which he at least still dominated.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:10 PM   #52 (permalink)
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People are getting too wrapped up into the semantics of things. P4P is mythical at best. It's really as simple as "who is the best fighter taking all factors into consideration regardless of weight class. It isn't who beat who previously, or who would beat who in a match. It is who is the best fighter period. Typically this is based on:
1. level of opposition
2. number of weight classes conquored or competed in
3. length of reign
4. skills-how fights are won
5. brb
6. mental toughness
7. etc

JBJ is definitely tearing through the scene and winning in amazing fashion. He's very unorthodox and doesn't seem to have a challenge in sight. Anyone can make a solid argument for him being the p4p best fighter in MMA. The only real ding against him is that Silva has done what he has done and had quite a long reign doing so. Sometimes people just can't sustain a reign at the top. Injuries, losing mental focus, etc can take the best athlete and take them out of p4p contention.

The fact Silva still competes at this level and still surprisingly has the reflexes he does is amazing. Silva's reign will likely end sooner than later just based on the fact he is a reflex fighter and those are the first attributes to go followed by speed/footwork then power. Either way, it has been amazing to watch Silva's reign and it's nice to know there is a new "bad boy in town." The torch looks like it will be passed to JBJ. While he may indeed be the BETTER fighter than Silva, that torch can't be passed yet when the guy is still dominating top level opposition, hasn't done anything to lose the "mythical title."

Kinda like in boxing where you have a fighter like RJJ who was the "p4p king" of the 1990s and early 2000s. FMJ was undefeated and beating fresher and tougher competition but didn't really take the thrown until it was passed down. Andre Ward is undefeated, beating tougher competition in a stacked division and has put himself in the top 3-5. Unfortunately for him, FMJ has done nothing to lose the crown. He still has the skills and ability to beat the top level fighters he faces.

I'm not a big fan of the mythical p4p rankings and enjoy looking at the best fighters and each division and enjoying them for exactly what they are worth. Fortunately Silva, GSP and Silva are active and still taking on the best challenges and rising to the occassion to win!
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:11 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Naw, I think Anderson still has a couple up on him. GSP and Jones are about tied, GSP because of number of defenses, and Jones for fighting (mostly) top competition.
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Old 05-01-2013, 09:02 AM   #54 (permalink)
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So what you are saying is GSP can't finish and Andy wrecks fools.
While that's more or less true, it's also true that GSP takes you down when he wants, and has the arguably the best striking record in the history of the UFC (which he seems to only use to set up for his wrestling,) so while there is a good chance Silva will out strike GSP, there's also a good chance Silva will have to do that 'out striking' from his back eating elbows.

If Silva turns out to be able to be able to stay standing and make GSP's striking look like Griffin's, then it's over for GSP .... but if GSP can shoot successfully then that's a completely different story.
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:31 AM   #55 (permalink)
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This is a dumb question but that pic is photoshopped right?
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:43 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Old 05-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by daveh98 View Post
People are getting too wrapped up into the semantics of things. P4P is mythical at best. It's really as simple as "who is the best fighter taking all factors into consideration regardless of weight class. It isn't who beat who previously, or who would beat who in a match. It is who is the best fighter period. Typically this is based on:
1. level of opposition
2. number of weight classes conquored or competed in
3. length of reign
4. skills-how fights are won
5. brb
6. mental toughness
7. etc

JBJ is definitely tearing through the scene and winning in amazing fashion. He's very unorthodox and doesn't seem to have a challenge in sight. Anyone can make a solid argument for him being the p4p best fighter in MMA. The only real ding against him is that Silva has done what he has done and had quite a long reign doing so. Sometimes people just can't sustain a reign at the top. Injuries, losing mental focus, etc can take the best athlete and take them out of p4p contention.

The fact Silva still competes at this level and still surprisingly has the reflexes he does is amazing. Silva's reign will likely end sooner than later just based on the fact he is a reflex fighter and those are the first attributes to go followed by speed/footwork then power. Either way, it has been amazing to watch Silva's reign and it's nice to know there is a new "bad boy in town." The torch looks like it will be passed to JBJ. While he may indeed be the BETTER fighter than Silva, that torch can't be passed yet when the guy is still dominating top level opposition, hasn't done anything to lose the "mythical title."

Kinda like in boxing where you have a fighter like RJJ who was the "p4p king" of the 1990s and early 2000s. FMJ was undefeated and beating fresher and tougher competition but didn't really take the thrown until it was passed down. Andre Ward is undefeated, beating tougher competition in a stacked division and has put himself in the top 3-5. Unfortunately for him, FMJ has done nothing to lose the crown. He still has the skills and ability to beat the top level fighters he faces.

I'm not a big fan of the mythical p4p rankings and enjoy looking at the best fighters and each division and enjoying them for exactly what they are worth. Fortunately Silva, GSP and Silva are active and still taking on the best challenges and rising to the occassion to win!
This is the best p4p post I've read in a while.

The only good p4p discussion is one which takes itself with a pinch of salt. It's all essentially hypothetical and armchair analysis as we can't really reduce or increase fighters frames and sizes at will to see how they would compete if they were all at a hypothetical same size.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:01 AM   #58 (permalink)
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This is a dumb question but that pic is photoshopped right?


I believe based on lighting the other on is an Anderson Silva pre-fight staredown pic.
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Old 05-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I think GSP may not beat Silva or Jones in any of those other areas, but he is 'good enough' to not be seriously disadvantaged by the differences.

GSP controls where the fight takes place. If Sonnen could do that against Silva, then GSP certainly can as well. There is no contest when it comes to wrestling between Silva and GSP, GSP hands down.

In Striking, yes, Silva is the most accurate striker, and has by far the most power, but he's up against someone who is #1 Significant Strikes landed, Total strikes landed, and if you look at striking stats http://www.fightmetric.com/ufcrecords.php GSP shows up in more striking record categories than Silva (and owns the takedown/wrestling categories)... now that's not to say that he's a better striker than Silva, because he's not, but it does tend to suggest that striking is not as big a factor as some like to claim.
Again, if GSP wrestling is his outstanding ability here where he is not as good as Anderson in any other area, you can't consider GSP skill set the better and that was my only observation on your assessment.

In another note, I think fighters are so worried (and they ought to be)about GSP TD, they get clipped all night by his jabs. That's why his metrics are up there. It's just like what happened to JDS against Cain. He wasn't out landed in a stand up war, he got hit several times worried about not being taken down until he faded.

About GSP taking Anderson down, what is quite a bet on possibility, I wonder what kind of damage he will impose against Anderson guard and long frame. If nowaday 205 Chael did nothing during 5 1/2 rounds, what pillow handed GSP would do on top of Anderson? Jeez, I think would be hard to land a punch, let alone elbows for he would never reach Anderson's face. Jones has the reach advantage to land those elbows, GSP does not.
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Old 05-01-2013, 04:18 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I think Roy nelson is P4P king.

Although this whole debate on p4p is kind of lame because theres no real way to measure it , atleast comparing guys in the same division you can compare guys with who they faced and fighters in common.

Personally I think Jones will stay undefeated for a very long time BUT I think that is down to the division being so shallow so can you really rank him above GSP and Anderson , but again its an opinion...........
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