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Old 05-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I think the focus on BJJ here sort of muddies the discussion.

I think Submission grappling, what a lot of people would consider "BJJ", is no longer a viable option as the main offensive tool for a top-tier fighter, but is still a necessary secondary offensive tool, and obviously a core defensive tool.

Positional grappling - takedowns, pressure, control, and scrambles, or what a lot would think of as "wrestling" is THE most important core skillset both offensively and defensively for a complete MMArtist, unless they're Anderson Silva.

Thing is, as Soojooko pointed out, BJJ isn't just submission grappling, it involves a lot of positional stuff as well (mind you, I doubt Maia's takedowns got that good only thanks to dropping down. I'm pretty sure he's been training with wrestlers.) And BJJ isn't the only martial art that teaches submissions.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
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you're just blind as **** if you think so. Just because every fight doesn't end in an armbar it doesn't mean that BJJ is any less important than before. In fact, I'd argue that it's more important.

I have noticed that your threads are pretty much shitstorms waiting to happen though.
Wow man, just an opinion, no reason to get all cranky, I'm sure your attitude is just born out of lack of knowledge, so ill educate you, bjj years ago, was by far the most dominant martial arts form in mma, but now it is just another aspect, and one that is rarely used to finish fights, either by decision, tap out, or ko, I have been a long time fan of mma so you have to respect evolution once it occurs
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Wow man, just an opinion, no reason to get all cranky, I'm sure your attitude is just born out of lack of knowledge, so ill educate you, bjj years ago, was by far the most dominant martial arts form in mma, but now it is just another aspect, and one that is rarely used to finish fights, either by decision, tap out, or ko, I have been a long time fan of mma so you have to respect evolution once it occurs
You know, the reason I said that "Just because every fight doesn't end in an armbar it doesn't mean that BJJ is any less important than before" is because that every practitioner is training BJJ now. And it's used for sweeps, and positioning far more than finishes there days. That's why I said it's more important than before, because you will get your shit choked out of you if you don't know your defences.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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You know, the reason I said that "Just because every fight doesn't end in an armbar it doesn't mean that BJJ is any less important than before" is because that every practitioner is training BJJ now. And it's used for sweeps, and positioning far more than finishes there days. That's why I said it's more important than before, because you will get your shit choked out of you if you don't know your defences.
I agree that it is very important, if you don't know it you're screwed, I think I probobly miss titled my post as it is clearly not dead, is just not the most dominant martial art anymore
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think I probobly miss titled my post as it is clearly not dead, is just not the most dominant martial art anymore
that I can agree with.
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Old 05-12-2013, 03:47 PM   #26 (permalink)
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BJJ is not dead, it's just pretty null right now. People haven't capitalized on it's possibilities. The only one who seems to have a transcendent submission game is Jon Jones, and it's due to his explosive power and common sense approach. You bend a guys arm a certain way, it causes pain, you win cuz he cannot withstand the pain, simple as that. Once people start giving the idea more respect, there will be more notable submission victories. People forget we still see plenty of SOTN bonuses being handed out, so they are still happening, they just aren't happening at the highest levels.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Rhonda Rousey. Judo but you get the point.
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Old 05-12-2013, 06:15 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The only one who seems to have a transcendent submission game is Jon Jones, and it's due to his explosive power and common sense approach.
This is so wrong I am almost not sure where to begin. Jon Jones does not have a transcendent submission game. He doesn't even have great submission defense and his actual submissions are all based off his build rather than skill. In every fight he makes basic bjj mistakes when he's on top of an opponent that a good bjj practitioner could take advantage of. Especially with the positioning of his arms. It's what Vitor and his camp saw and tried to exploit. Almost all of his submission victories have been based off a physical advantage (the length of his arms for the guillotines) and the condition of his opponent (Rampage and Bader gassing, Machida stunned, etc).

So I would give him having a killer instinct for strikes and submissions I wouldn't say he has a great bjj game. Especially considering he made the same mistakes against Sonnen as he did that almost got him caught against Vitor. I think he doesn't have a great spacial sense for his own body. It would explain why his striking doesn't seem to get better.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Rhonda Rousey. Judo but you get the point.
There is an obvious hole in your argument sir.

No pun intended.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
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This is so wrong I am almost not sure where to begin. Jon Jones does not have a transcendent submission game. He doesn't even have great submission defense and his actual submissions are all based off his build rather than skill. In every fight he makes basic bjj mistakes when he's on top of an opponent that a good bjj practitioner could take advantage of. Especially with the positioning of his arms. It's what Vitor and his camp saw and tried to exploit. Almost all of his submission victories have been based off a physical advantage (the length of his arms for the guillotines) and the condition of his opponent (Rampage and Bader gassing, Machida stunned, etc).

So I would give him having a killer instinct for strikes and submissions I wouldn't say he has a great bjj game. Especially considering he made the same mistakes against Sonnen as he did that almost got him caught against Vitor. I think he doesn't have a great spacial sense for his own body. It would explain why his striking doesn't seem to get better.
Way too long. As far as posts go. Noone read this.
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