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UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

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Old 05-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
It wasn't his point it was his wording choices. Maybe he was half pissed while posting but especially when playing the not racist card you need to be a little smarter with your wording.

As for the people arguing about genetics now. Yes they do come into effect in some regards but not here. Before you can start making assumptions like this Asians need to start training and fighting the same as say North American and Brazilian fighters. Right now it is like comparing apples to oranges, we already know that 90% of Asian fighters don't succeed against top talent in a North American style MMA match but that isn't because they are Asian. It is because they don't have the same quality of training especially when it comes to wrestling. They also have a different philosophy on weight cutting which puts them at a disadvantage when fighting a larger wrestling based fighter.

Now if you were arguing why there are no top Asian HW fighters I would agree that genetics definitely is coming into play. But that is another subject, there are lots of Asian fighters that if they trained properly with top level fighters they could be really good but that likely isn't going to happen at a large scale until the UFC makes larger steps into the Asian markets.
I agree he didn't exactly phrase it in a way that comes off as politically correct. At the same time there was nothing malicious or hateful in the post, just ignorance.

As for the rest of your post I think you made some very good points.
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
It wasn't his point it was his wording choices. Maybe he was half pissed while posting but especially when playing the not racist card you need to be a little smarter with your wording.

As for the people arguing about genetics now. Yes they do come into effect in some regards but not here. Before you can start making assumptions like this Asians need to start training and fighting the same as say North American and Brazilian fighters. Right now it is like comparing apples to oranges, we already know that 90% of Asian fighters don't succeed against top talent in a North American style MMA match but that isn't because they are Asian. It is because they don't have the same quality of training especially when it comes to wrestling. They also have a different philosophy on weight cutting which puts them at a disadvantage when fighting a larger wrestling based fighter.

Now if you were arguing why there are no top Asian HW fighters I would agree that genetics definitely is coming into play. But that is another subject, there are lots of Asian fighters that if they trained properly with top level fighters they could be really good but that likely isn't going to happen at a large scale until the UFC makes larger steps into the Asian markets.
^ A lot of this. Factors that play a huge role in how many good athletes there are in a certain sport is the quality of training possibilities (depends also on money) and the number of people who start training in first place. Why do the US usually take the most medals home from the Olympics¿ It's because it's a pretty big country with a big population and it's a pretty rich country. With the big population there a also a big absolute number of people who train in some kind of sport, the more people who start to train, the more likely it is that some exceptional talent could be among them. Those people need to be promoted, which needs good talent scouts to find them in first place, good training facilities (which often are expensive) and good coaches with good training methods. China i.e. with the biggest population (=biggest probable talent pool) was rather mediocre in taking home medals for the most time, until its economics really began to grow. Now in the recent Olympics it's among the top medal winning countries. Jamaica, a comparable small country breeds a comparable high number of track and field athletes, in particular sprint and long jump, but close to none in other sports. That's because Jamaika at one point decided to put almost all of the money it spends on promoting athletes in exactly those few disciplines. So every kid there already knows that if it wants to succeed in life with sports, it has to start with sprinting and not water polo or ice hockey.
Another factor is how popular a specific sport is. The US don't really succeed in (original) football, because almost nobody cares about that sport. It couldn't be established against the popular team sports like American football, basket ball and base ball. Brasil and Germany have a long tradition of being (original) footbal crazy, hence there are many people who start playing as kids which builds a big talent pool, so they are successful. The UFC which is the biggest MMA promotion world wide targets the US market in first place, so it's no wonder that it's most popular there. With notable fighters like the Gracies initiating the rise of the UFC and a tradition in vale tudo fights, it's also understandable why it succeeds in Brasil and why there so many good Brasilian fighters.
With PRIDE gone, MMA is not overly successful in Asia and in addition rules are different over there, so it's no wonder that there aren't that many successful Asian fighters. But as someone has mentioned, the same applies to European fighters (where in some countries MMA is even banned, so it's pretty hard to build up talents there)
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Old 05-18-2013, 02:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Yeah it is pretty funny how people expect that every country should be well represented when why should those countries or people from them really care about MMA?

The UFC is by far the only real legit MMA organization anymore and it has a fairly non existent role in Asian countries as well as many others. It is like asking why are there no good African fighters? Because Africa like Asia don't care about the UFC, the majority of people don't watch it and kids etc don't grow up wanting to be MMA fighters. Hard to be the best MMA fighter in the world when you grow up not even knowing what MMA is(by the North American standard anyways).

It is like what the UFC was years ago, full of the equivalent of bar room brawlers. The sport took off in North America, money got involved and now we are seeing far better athletes getting involved in the sport.

All this stuff takes time and barring some sort of set back there will be great fighters from all across the globe. We are talking years if not decades though not days or months even from where we are at now. Especially with the demise of Pride and now Dream it is no wonder we aren't seeing much for new life coming from Asian fighters. It is actually becoming more difficult to be successful in MMA over there so fewer people are entering into it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Yeah it is pretty funny how people expect that every country should be well represented when why should those countries or people from them really care about MMA?

The UFC is by far the only real legit MMA organization anymore and it has a fairly non existent role in Asian countries as well as many others. It is like asking why are there no good African fighters? Because Africa like Asia don't care about the UFC, the majority of people don't watch it and kids etc don't grow up wanting to be MMA fighters. Hard to be the best MMA fighter in the world when you grow up not even knowing what MMA is(by the North American standard anyways).

It is like what the UFC was years ago, full of the equivalent of bar room brawlers. The sport took off in North America, money got involved and now we are seeing far better athletes getting involved in the sport.

All this stuff takes time and barring some sort of set back there will be great fighters from all across the globe. We are talking years if not decades though not days or months even from where we are at now. Especially with the demise of Pride and now Dream it is no wonder we aren't seeing much for new life coming from Asian fighters. It is actually becoming more difficult to be successful in MMA over there so fewer people are entering into it.
What is this babbling? So you are saying more kids in America know what MMA is and want to be MMA fighters? But in Asia that isn't exactly the case?

MMA was somewhat founded in Japan. MMA was WAAAAAAAY more popular in Japan in the 90s than it was in AMerica.

I don't buy your post at all.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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There aren't as many good MMA camps available for Asians as there are for Brazilians, Americans etc so they have less options. That and they tend to be less athletic.
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:42 PM   #26 (permalink)
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There aren't as many good MMA camps available for Asians as there are for Brazilians, Americans etc so they have less options. That and they tend to be less athletic.
Many of the better Brazilians train in America anyway. Yes Blackhouse is headquartered in Brazil, but they also have a gym or 2 in America.

Hmmm....I wonder why there are few top Asian MMA gyms when the sport was so well-excepted and big before the UFC was ever big? Hmmm...probably because they have few good fighters to start and teach at camps. Or simply focus on the wrong aspects of MMA.

Hmmm why does Brazil and America have the best camps? Probably because Brazilians and Americans have yearly had many of teh best fighters in the sport. Even back in PRIDE (A JAPANESE PROMOTION) Brazilians had guys like Arona, Nog, Wandy.....other than Sakuraba, where were the great Asian fighters???

It can't be "oh they have no good camps". Well why don't they? The sport of MMA was accepted well before it was in America. So why are they so behind?
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Old 05-18-2013, 03:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
What is this babbling? So you are saying more kids in America know what MMA is and want to be MMA fighters? But in Asia that isn't exactly the case?

MMA was somewhat founded in Japan. MMA was WAAAAAAAY more popular in Japan in the 90s than it was in AMerica.

I don't buy your post at all.
Let's use Britain as the example instead of Japan then, nobody knows what MMA is here, maybe 1 in 100 people would understand what i mean if i said MMA; it would not be in the top 50 sports here yet on numbers alone we're probably one of the top 5 nationalities in the UFC.

Super genetics?

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Old 05-18-2013, 03:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Let's use Britain as the example instead of Japan then, nobody knows what MMA is here, maybe 1 in 100 people would understand what i mean if i said MMA; it would not be in the top 50 sports here yet on numbers alone we're probably one of the top 5 nationalities in the UFC.

Super genetics?

Pipe down, Britain isn't good either.

Between the U.S. and Brazil the 2 probably make up 90% or more of the top fighters. Asian fighters are touted well before they get to the UFC. The "elite" Asian fighters turned into a pile or mediocrity or worse in the UFC. Britain's claim to fame is Bisping who is a gatekeeper at best. They have Ross. Manuwa I guess is a prospect at 33 years of age?? Who else?

After the top 2 countries, no country is that strong in fielding good MMA fighters. Canada has GSP and Rory. A couple more decent guys...that is about it. Australia has a couple decent guys.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:01 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Pipe down, Britain isn't good either.

Between the U.S. and Brazil the 2 probably make up 90% or more of the top fighters. Asian fighters are touted well before they get to the UFC. The "elite" Asian fighters turned into a pile or mediocrity or worse in the UFC. Britain's claim to fame is Bisping who is a gatekeeper at best. They have Ross. Manuwa I guess is a prospect at 33 years of age?? Who else?

After the top 2 countries, no country is that strong in fielding good MMA fighters. Canada has GSP and Rory. A couple more decent guys...that is about it. Australia has a couple decent guys.
MMA in it's modern carnation is essentially an American sport, with it's rules tailored towards already existing sports in which Americans excel in (wrestling). Ontop of that the UFC is an American organisation, of course most of the fighters are American.
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Old 05-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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MMA in it's modern carnation is essentially an American sport, with it's rules tailored towards already existing sports in which Americans excel in (wrestling). Ontop of that the UFC is an American organisation, of course most of the fighters are American.
Many are Brazilian. Of the 8 men's divisions 3 are pure strikers really. Bones and Bendo are American but get many of their wins in striking matches. Cain is a wrestler, but just beat up JDS on the feet. GSP is Canadian and learned wrestling late.....yet he is probably the best wrestler and uses it the most of any champ to secure wins. It is called being well-rounded...not a wrestler.

I agree Wrestling is very important, but then why are so many Brazilians some of the best? Wrestling is defiantly not a big sport there. So why are the so successful?

Pride was a Japanese promotion. So if the UFC is built around American fighters doing American wrestling because it is an American promotion....then tell me why did Brazil and US dominate Pride??? Sure there were more Asian fighters there, but many were sideshows from Pro Wrestling, many were guys who they fed to the Wandys of the organization. So tell me why Japanese fighters didn't dominate the Japanese promotion?
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