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UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on FOX, FX, and FUEL TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

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post #81 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Are you suggesting any fighter cant evolve? Of course they can. And for all of Silva natural gifts, without the endless training it would be worth nothing. That kind of dedication *can* be taught. Its one of the things sports psychologists have been dealing with for decades.

Look, im not saying somebody is going to come along that replaces Silva in our hearts. That will never happen... nor do I want it to. But like I said, NOBODY suspected Silva would become what he has, when they first saw him at 25 years old. There are lots of 25 year old talented guys out there right now. Some of them a extremely talented and dedicated. I have every confidence that in 5 years we'll be looking at some of the young dudes of today, and be utterly amazed at their skill levels.
Lets not drive away from the point. I am not suggesting nothing. I am straight saying people will always have different paces and motivation levels to evolve. Plenty of people will evolve to a point and halt and there's nothing nobody can do to make it improve. This is daily observed in schools, work etc., where someone is falling behind and all the efforts of teachers, instructors, doctors are provided.

People are different and will evolve differently. This is a simple fact of life. Someone will be the first in class, another will try harder and harder and never be able to get close no matter what. People have more dedication than others and dedication can be taught, but not forced. In Anderson, most things are aligned together: Will, talent, physique, stamina, concentration, motivation.

So, no. Not anybody can achieve certain levels no matter how they try.


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post #82 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 04:21 PM
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The sport is still evolving at a massive rate [...]
Is it¿ What have been the major evolution steps in the past 5 years¿

When MMA hit the big screen with UFC 1 it wasn't MMA, but martial arts styles vs. martial arts styles. BJJ came out on top and dominated the other styles. Strikers start to learn sprawl and avoid the take downs. Wrestling closes the gap. Now every fighting distance is covered - stand up with Muay Thai and brawl, take down and clinch work with wrestling, ground fighting BJJ/grappling and wrestling combined with ground and pound. The next and IMO last major evolutionary step is that fighters actually get proficient in two of the three relevant areas. Those steps were the massive evolution of MMA and that's what we got for around ten years now. Everything afterwards is rather fine tuning (i.e boxing centric striking, strong defensive BJJ, decision designed game plans).

Fighters have already become full time athletes for quite a while now and they only have a limited amount of time to train. Maximum proficiency in one area needs maximum training time which means cut backs in training time for other areas. Now it's the time to find the right balance of training time spend for different aspects for training optimisation. The time of massive evolution is over.
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post #83 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 05:15 PM
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Is it¿ What have been the major evolution steps in the past 5 years¿

When MMA hit the big screen with UFC 1 it wasn't MMA, but martial arts styles vs. martial arts styles. BJJ came out on top and dominated the other styles. Strikers start to learn sprawl and avoid the take downs. Wrestling closes the gap. Now every fighting distance is covered - stand up with Muay Thai and brawl, take down and clinch work with wrestling, ground fighting BJJ/grappling and wrestling combined with ground and pound. The next and IMO last major evolutionary step is that fighters actually get proficient in two of the three relevant areas. Those steps were the massive evolution of MMA and that's what we got for around ten years now. Everything afterwards is rather fine tuning (i.e boxing centric striking, strong defensive BJJ, decision designed game plans).

Fighters have already become full time athletes for quite a while now and they only have a limited amount of time to train. Maximum proficiency in one area needs maximum training time which means cut backs in training time for other areas. Now it's the time to find the right balance of training time spend for different aspects for training optimisation. The time of massive evolution is over.
Are you telling me guys like Jones/Cain/JDS/Aldo/Benson aren't evolved beyond Penn/Liddell/Randy/Fedor? They are on a higher level than any of them, and it's been what 5 years roughly since all those guys were on top?

MMA is still in a position where fighters who were at the top of the heap (and have been around a long time) are being defeated and outclassed by newcomers. When Jones won the championship, Machida/Shogun/Rampage/Rashad were some of the highest ranked fighters ever, and it was considered the deepest division in MMA. Jones, a 23 year old at the time gets a title shot and destroys all of them. He's the youngest champion in UFC history.

New guys like Gustafsson and Glover are beating guys like Shogun/Rampage. They have evolved beyond them. It was what, 3 years ago when Shogun was going to reign the LHW divison forever, and a year before that when Machida was?

It's pretty easy to see how MMA is still evolving at a quick rate. It's not as big of a jump as UFC1 to whatever, but it's still a big leap every few years and a very noticeable one.
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post #84 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 06:33 PM
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Are you telling me guys like Jones/Cain/JDS/Aldo/Benson aren't evolved beyond Penn/Liddell/Randy/Fedor? They are on a higher level than any of them, and it's been what 5 years roughly since all those guys were on top?

MMA is still in a position where fighters who were at the top of the heap (and have been around a long time) are being defeated and outclassed by newcomers. When Jones won the championship, Machida/Shogun/Rampage/Rashad were some of the highest ranked fighters ever, and it was considered the deepest division in MMA. Jones, a 23 year old at the time gets a title shot and destroys all of them. He's the youngest champion in UFC history.

New guys like Gustafsson and Glover are beating guys like Shogun/Rampage. They have evolved beyond them. It was what, 3 years ago when Shogun was going to reign the LHW divison forever, and a year before that when Machida was?

It's pretty easy to see how MMA is still evolving at a quick rate. It's not as big of a jump as UFC1 to whatever, but it's still a big leap every few years and a very noticeable one.



Just because one fighter beat another doesn't mean that they 're more "evolved" then the fighter that he beat especially with regards to both rampage and shogun being that they're both shot fighters at this point (sorry pride fans).

Style wise what does JDS do differently than chuck? what makes cain more evolved than randy? When I watch Benson fight I sometimes feel like he ripped a page from gsp's book. What in the world makes glover's brawling style more evolved than the fighters that came before him? What about gustaffon's skillset makes him so much more evolved than the fighters of yesteryear?





I'll say one thing though, before anderson came to the ufc people on sherdog and the underground would talk about how head movement would never work in mma because it would result in getting kicked/knee'ed in the head. And if someone tried to use boxing footwork they would either get taken down by a wrestler or chopped down by a kickboxer. In everyone's defense we were right to think that given the evidence of K-1 and earlier pride/ufc fights. Then along came anderson. that's evolution.



p.s. aldo is something else lol nothing but respect there
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post #85 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 08:09 PM
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Are you telling me guys like Jones/Cain/JDS/Aldo/Benson aren't evolved beyond Penn/Liddell/Randy/Fedor? They are on a higher level than any of them, and it's been what 5 years roughly since all those guys were on top?

MMA is still in a position where fighters who were at the top of the heap (and have been around a long time) are being defeated and outclassed by newcomers. When Jones won the championship, Machida/Shogun/Rampage/Rashad were some of the highest ranked fighters ever, and it was considered the deepest division in MMA. Jones, a 23 year old at the time gets a title shot and destroys all of them. He's the youngest champion in UFC history.

New guys like Gustafsson and Glover are beating guys like Shogun/Rampage. They have evolved beyond them. It was what, 3 years ago when Shogun was going to reign the LHW divison forever, and a year before that when Machida was?
What does Velasquez do so much different than Emelianenko¿ They both have/had high pressure striking and good take downs (one via wrestling the other via Sambo/Judo) and good GnP. Both have good cardio. Yet Velasquez would have to show some significant submission skills to be considered an as complete fighter as Emelianenko. What is Velasquez so much more than maybe a finetuned version Emelianenko. (And with only three successful title fights he still has quite a way to show the same dominance over his devision as Emelianenko did)

Benson Henderson is like a smaller copy of St. Pierre, good allround fighter with his wrestling based style, good striking and good grappling (and lack of finishing ability). Yet the younger fighter is significantly less dominant than St. Pierre.

Dos Santos shows similarities to a boxing centric version of CroCop in Pride. Striking centred fighting with good TDD and good timing.

Quote:
It's pretty easy to see how MMA is still evolving at a quick rate. It's not as big of a jump as UFC1 to whatever, but it's still a big leap every few years and a very noticeable one.
If it's so easy to see how MMA is/has been massively evolving in recent times, you should be able to name it in what way the big leaps of evolution have come.

As jhizzy has said, the newer fighters beating the older fighters doesn't necessarily mean they have evolved beyond the older fighters at their respective prime. Particularly not "massively". Beating Mauricio "constant knee problems" Rua these days is not a measure stick for greatness. And Glover won a decision against Quinton Jackson who lost a decision to Bader. As I said, it's rather finetuning what's happeining at this time.

The only one of the "new breed" who may show exceptional allround fighting skills is Jones with his physical gifted body and his pronounced wish to follow the footsteps of Anderson Silva. He has yet to significantly improve his punching power though, particularly if he really plans to move up to heavy weight where he doesn't have the strength advantage over his opponents to greco ragdoll them like at LHW.
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post #86 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-27-2013, 09:12 PM
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What does Velasquez do so much different than Emelianenko¿
so many things, really, just so many. You know the guy that beat Fedor to a pulp got humiliated twice by Cain. The number one thing Cain does better than Fedor is push the pace, sure Fedor was good at it, but Cain is relentless from the beginning second of the first round until the fight is over. His cardio is superhuman and quite frankly hard to understand how it's even possible. Add that to the fact that he is improving his punching power and Cain is a significant improvement upon the skillset of Fedor.

The improvements have come in the form of better cardio, more punching power, better sub defense, better kicks and better head movement all from training techniques that have evolved over the last decade that allow fighters to bring a more dynamic skillset that is less predictable. Where Randy was pushing guys around and trying to win with dirty boxing and takedowns you have no idea what Jones is going to win with, oh a standing guillotine, how in the hell could anyone have seen that coming. The old days of one dimensional champs are over and that's how the sport has evolved from 5 years ago, the one dimensional power puncher Rampage looked like an amateur against the well rounded Jones. The old guard of Evans, Hendo, Machida, Rampage, Liddell, Couture, Tito all stand no chance against the like of Jones and Glover. If you can't see how there is a vast disparity in the skillset of these fighters then I don't know what to say.
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post #87 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 05:59 AM
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Why we talking about Silva being the GOAT? It's clear that Chael is GOAT



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post #88 of 88 (permalink) Old 06-28-2013, 06:12 AM
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Why we talking about Silva being the GOAT? It's clear that Chael is GOAT
No argument there. But is it even fair to compare MMA fighters to the all mighty???

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