Rogan Riffs: Anderson Silva - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:48 AM   #31 (permalink)
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isn't GSP the guy who got outstruck by Jake shields?
Yes. After Jake eye gouged him twice. That does tend to make a bit of a difference.

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I like all three as fighters as well. I prefer Anderson as well and I will be fair when comparing each best assets against each other. I just disagree to rank GSP (who I like a lot) above Anderson based on the fight Anderson spent under Sonnen. That's nonsense. It would mean it is preferable to lose a fight by KO rather than coming back from behind and win. Nonsense.
Referring to everything as 'nonsense' just because you don't agree with it doesn't actually make it nonsense. And posting a picture of GSP battered and bruised from a minute and a half exchange with Carlos in top control (the only minute and a half GSP actually lost in that entire fight) doesn't make his win against Condit any less dominant or change the fact that Anderson Silva lost 23 minutes of a 25 minute championship fight.

And while it is true that Anderson hasn't been KOed or lost in the 'UFC era' as you put it, some context is necessary. GSP has fought in the UFC since 2003. He didn't fight in a wealth of other organizations beforehand like Anderson did. He grew up and evolved in Ultimate Fighting Championship - quite literally. The KO loss to Serra happened when GSP was just 26 years old. He was still young and still obviously maturing as a fighter. He'd not even reached his prime yet.

Compare this with Anderson Silva, who, probably still finding his own rhythm as well, suffered his first submission loss when he was 28, and his second when he was 29. Sure, he was fighting in other organizations at the time, but I don't see how that matters. The best fighters, regardless of where they call home, can get caught. It's silly to hark on GSP losing in the 'UFC era' when GSP has spent 95% of his career fighting in the UFC, while Anderson fought in other organizations for nearly 10 years before coming to the UFC. It's a total cop-out to say that one loss is somehow worse than another because it happened in the UFC. Especially when - once again - GSP has only ever really fought for the UFC (his brief stint in TKO being his only other occupation).

No one is saying it's preferable to lose a fight by KO as versus coming from behind with a win. That is nonsense, and you're pulling it out of thin air. But you're ignoring Anderson's losses for the sake of holding him over St. Pierre simply because said losses occurred in another organization. And that's just good old fashioned bias.

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Hum, you didn't quote, so I am confused and forced to say I did't say that anyway.
The OP said Anderson is not the best because he was on the bottom for 23 minutes eating punches in one occasion and I think that was an impressive demonstration of will, toughness and perseverance that in no way demerits him in comparison tho others. That was it.
I wasn't referring to the OP. I was referring to SM33, who essentially commented that Anderson is greater than GSP and Jones because neither man have come back from adversity like Anderson has. I would argue that tearing your groin during a fight/fighting with the flu and an injured achilles tendon and still dominating ala GSP is defying adversity. I would argue that not tapping to a deep arm-bar that leaves you injured/pushing forward despite tearing your big toe in half and still dominating the fight is defying adversity. While I have all the respect in the world for Anderson for finding that triangle choke after taking a 23 minute pounding, I admire GSP and Jones all the more for still dominating their opponents despite being badly injured themselves.

Anderson Silva is a tremendous talent and arguably the greatest of this generation. There are many valid reasons for why this holds true - his reflexes and performances against Vitor, Griffin, Bonnar, etc. His ability to remain ageless in a sport that breaks men down quickly. His streak, his records, and more. But no one will convince me that dropping nearly an entire fight due to injury is a greater triumph than dominating an entire fight despite injury.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #32 (permalink)
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But no one will convince me that dropping nearly an entire fight due to injury is a greater triumph than dominating an entire fight despite injury.
What?! Even if the dude you are dropping the fight to the mighty Chael P Sonnen?
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #33 (permalink)
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I do believe that injury effected Anderson's performance against Chael. This is not to say that Anderson wasn't taken down at will by a tremendous wrestler, because he was. But I remember thinking that Anderson was typically more active on bottom (against Henderson, Lutter, etc.). And so I don't think it a stretch to say that injured ribs likely took some of that steam away. It's a lot more believable than this 'Anderson let Sonnen take him down' hokum. Either way, Silva was always in for a butt-kicking against Sonnen. So much so that he had to cheat in their second fight to avoid further humiliation.

And yes, I give Jones more credit for dominating a Sonnen who took the fight to him as versus a Silva who nearly crumbled under the pressure.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:23 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I thought we were speaking UFC, CP. OK. Lets talk about Takase and Ryo, then...

The nonsense I was referring was specific regarding... blah, it's written up there. Read again.

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And while it is true that Anderson hasn't been KOed or lost in the 'UFC era' as you put it, some context is necessary. GSP has fought in the UFC since 2003. He didn't fight in a wealth of other organizations beforehand like Anderson did. He grew up and evolved in Ultimate Fighting Championship - quite literally. The KO loss to Serra happened when GSP was just 26 years old. He was still young and still obviously maturing as a fighter. He'd not even reached his prime yet.
So, because Anderson was older you believe he was in his prime when he got submitted back then?
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #35 (permalink)
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As much as we all may or may not like it, I think jones is on a collision course to being the GOAT seeing how he is the most dominant champ I can think of and annihilated the division so quickly that challengers are already beginning to double up with machida close to another shot.

I think if anderson does fight jones it will show how much better he is than anderson because of that absurdly strong clinch and brutal ground and pound.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:00 AM   #36 (permalink)
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GSP and Jones are a long way behind Silva. They are yet to defeat adversity like Anderson has.
I take it having your arm ligaments snapped off and still hammering a guy into unconsciousness with that same arm after 3 more rounds of exhausting dominance doesn't count as overcoming adversity.

Also here's a case for Jones already being GOAT over Silva. Jones is essentially undefeated, Silva has THREE losses. Jones has never even been scratched and has only been in trouble like 5 secs in his entire career. He's never lost a single round in his entire life.

Aside from his 3 losses, Silva was also pounded for 4.5 rounds, has been taken down repeatedly (Chael 2, Henderson, Lutter, Otsuka), mounted, and lost many rounds.

Jones has never been in a boring/embarrassing/brain fart fight in his life. When the man steps into the cage, you know some bad shit is going down. Anderson spent 3 whole main event championship fights dancing and running away like a clown doing nothing.

All of Jones' UFC opponents have been legends/ex-champs or are veterans still going strong in the UFC. A bunch of Anderson's opponents couldn't even cut it in the UFC (Leites, Lutter, Cote), so Jones has consistently been facing better competition.

Anderson Silva has only faced 2 wrestlers in his entire 40 fight career (Sonnen, Hendo). 4 if you count half-baked wrestlers like Okami and Otsuka. Both of them took him down and stole at least a round from him if not more and actually battered him. It's very easy to look invincible when you hardly face your weakness, and look very human when you do. Let's see how he does against Weidman, then we'll talk.

Jones has smashed strikers on their feet and made them TAP to strikes, outwrestled NCAA all american wrestlers, submitted BJJ black belts, and never been threatened by any of it except for 5 secs in an armbar. Which he endured and escaped. Instead of tapping and crying later in the locker room like someone else.

So Anderson has some records because he's been in the game longer. Give Jones time. He's TWENTY FIVE. At his age Anderson was fighting bums in villages in Brazil, Jones is already the longest reigning LHW champ in UFC history.

So what does Anderson have going for him? That he's the best striker in MMA? Some flashy dominations in the standup? Yes, but that's just one facet of MMA. This is MIXED martial arts, and Jones is clearly the more well rounded, dominant, intimidating and virtually flawless athlete.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:32 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Either way, Silva was always in for a butt-kicking against Sonnen. So much so that he had to cheat in their second fight to avoid further humiliation.
Such a brave face to say that. If we are to agree Silva was cheating on the second fight, lets just say he was merely returning the favor to Chael +T Sonnen.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:11 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I thought we were speaking UFC, CP. OK. Lets talk about Takase and Ryo, then...
So because Anderson Silva is a UFC fighter, we're not permitted to discuss his fight history beyond his UFC bouts? We are talking current UFC fighters, but their respective histories certainly aren't off limits. That would be absurd.

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So, because Anderson was older you believe he was in his prime when he got submitted back then?
Not at all. I even pointed out that Anderson was likely still maturing as a fighter. My argument was that anyone can be caught, especially a young fighter still finding his rhythm. You were making it sound as though Anderson has never tasted an embarrassing defeat, while GSP had been KOed in the prime of his career. That's simply not the case for either man.

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Such a brave face to say that. If we are to agree Silva was cheating on the second fight, lets just say he was merely returning the favor to Chael +T Sonnen.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:13 PM   #39 (permalink)
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This thread is becoming quite amusing, I must say.
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Old 06-28-2013, 02:42 PM   #40 (permalink)
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You were making it sound as though Anderson has never tasted an embarrassing defeat, while GSP had been KOed in the prime of his career. That's simply not the case for either man.
You know I don't play that way. My point was clear against the OP logic that referred only to Anderson being under Sonnen for 23 minutes to state he could not be better than GSP because of that, while GSP lost his UFC belt being KTFO. Simple. Anderson never been KOed.

And for those highlighting Jones way through adversity, I must refresh your memories with the fact Vitor had a broken hand in that fight and Jones was caught in that arm bar by his own inability to see it coming and broken hand Vitor gave him one of his tough tests which lasted 4 rounds, while injury free Vitor didn't last a single round against Anderson.
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