Rogan Riffs: Anderson Silva - Page 7 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #61 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 01:36 PM
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Well, in that case the submission of an Olympic wrestler and Olympic alternate should count to Silva's credit...
I repeat, a wrestler with the worst sub defense in UFC history, and a formality on a knocked out opponent.

Belfort and Machida weren't out already or have terrible sub defense.
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post #62 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 01:54 PM
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I repeat, a wrestler with the worst sub defense in UFC history, and a formality on a knocked out opponent.

Belfort and Machida weren't out already or have terrible sub defense.
Belfort had a broken hand and was pretty stunned from GnP, as was Machida after that heavy elbow. And what are Machida's huge BJJ credentials anyways other than "having a black belt", when was he ever in need to show any kind of sub-defense skills¿
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post #63 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 04:05 PM
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Imo, definitely a question who's the best. He's done amazing incredible things. He does have a weakness though. I don't think anyone will come along with his reflexes and accuracy for a VERY long time. But I think the "best" are the guys like Jones and Gsp... Who are great in every area.

Anderson is amazing. I'm not taking that away from him. I just don't think you can call a guy "the best" who had a record set for the most strikes landed against.
wow wtf is this forums obsession with Chael Sonnen? That is ONE match, the fact he has a record for most strikes landed against means absolutely nothing when he didn't even lose. **** idk how someone can suggest that point seriously, it's one match and btw he won it.
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post #64 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 08:46 PM
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Eh, I've no interest in debating when I'm just going to be told I'm 'stupid' and 'ignorant' for having a differing point of view. I will say this - even when I come right out and admit that Anderson is the greatest active fighter right now, despite my being a huge GSP fan, I still get BS because I consider him the best for alternative reasons. Only Anderson Silva fans, lol.
i know you are not talking about me, because you know I am a fair trader and also a GSP fan myself.

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Jones has legit submitted TWO BJJ black belts with excellent creds (not fat dehydrated ones with illegal elbows either) and ragdolled NCAA div I wrestlers in addition to having great wrestling creds of hia own. Yes wrestling also comes under the umbrella of grappling, so jones' creds there count.

I did read what you said maybe you are sleepwriting and don't know what you wrote. You said you "LAUGH at those who DOUBT his grappling". Well I laugh at those who think his meager grappling will make him do great against any real grappler on the ground. Anderson would and has gotten straight up tooled by guys that managed to take him down, right from Takase all those years ago to Sonnen lately.

Jones on the other hand has fought top level strikers and still owned them on the feet. In addition to owning top level grapplers on the ground.
Yep. You failed twice now. Did not see you pointing exactly where I said Anderson is a great grappler and also didn't see which were the great grappling comps your "well rounded" almost submited by a broken hand short notice 185 over the hill Jones has competed.

OK, just say: "All right, you did no say that." and "Yeah, Jones never had any participation in any important grappling competition" and save your face. That's what I do. And often I have to save my face over here. Even this being an anonymous forum.


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post #65 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 09:01 PM
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i know you are not talking about me, because you know I am a fair trader and also a GSP fan myself.



Yep. You failed twice now. Did not see you pointing exactly where I said Anderson is a great grappler and also didn't see which were the great grappling comps your "well rounded" almost submited by a broken hand short notice 185 over the hill Jones has competed.

OK, just say: "All right, you did no say that." and "Yeah, Jones never had any participation in any important grappling competition" and save your face. That's what I do. And often I have to save my face over here. Even this being an anonymous forum.
Whatever I'm done debating with delusional anderson fans until after the weidman fight. You're usually a good poster but anderson fanboy syndrome usually brings out the worst lack of logic in posters, just as much as anderson hater syndrome. People can't seem to just analyse him like any other fighter, he either has to be an invincible demigod who even gets taken down on purpose or the worst thing to ever crawl into the octagon.

See you after a week.
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post #66 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-29-2013, 09:38 PM
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Whatever I'm done debating with delusional anderson fans until after the weidman fight. You're usually a good poster but anderson fanboy syndrome usually brings out the worst lack of logic in posters, just as much as anderson hater syndrome. People can't seem to just analyse him like any other fighter, he either has to be an invincible demigod who even gets taken down on purpose or the worst thing to ever crawl into the octagon.

See you after a week.
I like you as well, Lidd, I just can`t admit something I did not say just to please you. I am more than aware Anderson worst game is wrestilng/grapling, but, man, he devoted himself so much to that he actually submitted people in official matches. It does not mean he is great or that would be his first option at all, but certainly saved his butt a few times, don't you think? I am the last to be called a fanboy, man. I will acknowledge as I always did what is right or wrong about my preferred fighters.

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he either has to be an invincible demigod who even gets taken down on purpose...
That is bullshit. I do not agree with this craziness, specially in the first Sonnen fight. he was taken down by a powerful wrestler at will. Period. +T, ok, but unwilling anyway .


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post #67 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 12:49 AM
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isn't GSP the guy who got outstruck by Jake shields?
Nope.

GSP is the guy who looked like he was on the route to finish Jake Shields standing and then got eye poked and fought the whole fight with 1 eye not being able to measure distance and he was still holding his own with a 2 eyed Pro MMA fighter Jake Shields.

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post #68 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 01:03 AM
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That's a pretty pathetic excuse.

It's not like he was blinded. He didn't even have any damage to that eye.


He just looked awful against one of the worst strikers in the sport.

His technique was terrible that fight...throwing ridiculous straight right/overhand right hyrbid punches half the fight and spamming spinning back kicks....GSP's lack of creativity and fludity is embarrassing at times...the guy can't fight outside of his gameplan....I'm interested to see the Hendricks fight.

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post #69 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 01:08 AM
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That's a pretty pathetic excuse.

It's not like he was blinded. He didn't even have any damage to that eye.


He just looked awful against one of the worst strikers in the sport.

His technique was terrible that fight...throwing ridiculous straight right/overhand right hyrbid punches half the fight and spamming spinning back kicks....GSP's lack of creativity and fludity is embarrassing at times...the guy can't fight outside of his gameplan....I'm interested to see the Hendricks fight.


Looks like he had plenty of eye damage.

He even told his corner that he could not see out of the eye in between rounds.



Its not a pathetic excuse at all. Its a reason. Next time you go spar lets see how well you do with 1 eye.

And he looked good striking before the eye poke. He even dropped Shields once or twice if i recall. Then came the eye poke and he looked mediocre.


Anyway im not going to argue with you i watched the fight and i know 100% what happened and haters are going to hate. Not much more to it then that.

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post #70 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-30-2013, 01:28 AM
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So Jones lost A round, EVER. A close one at that. You got me. It still doesn't compare to 3 embarrassing losses to complete cans, 4.5 rounds of complete pounding, and being mounted by a fat, dehydrated reality TV winner who got booted out of the UFC.

I'm not going to comment much on the Ward comparison because frankly I couldn't be bothered to follow that boring pillow fighting hugfest of a sport since the dawn of a more realistic combat sport in MMA. On the face of it though, yes, a champion and #2 rank p4p boxer certainly looks better than the one who lost 22 freaking times. "Legends" in grainy black and white always gain bloated reputations over time, and anyone questioning them is considered ignorant or not "educated" by the snobs of the sport. Give Armstrong another thousand years and you'll probably hear about how he slew dragons and smashed the armies of Troy. Then again maybe he was better than Ward by virtue of holding 3 belts at the same time. You can start comparing Anderson to him then when Anderson actually holds 3 belts too instead of beating cans in LHW in addition to ruling over one of the weakest divisions in MMA.

But anyway, I don't really care about the boxing comparison or to educate myself on it because I haven't watched a single fight of either and don't intend to. Please stop peppering your posts with boxing analogies because frankly most MMA fans don't care and this is an MMA forum.

Anderson has shown excellence only against people who PLAY HIS GAME. Stand and trade with him. Even Hendo only went down because he stopped going for his olympic level takedowns and decided to ply his slow overrated haymaker against a sniper striker. Sonnen lost because 1. his sub defense is the worst in the entire UFC and he still beat the snot out of Anderson for 4.5 rounds and 2. because he failed takedowns from short grabbing and went for another "awesome standup" move. Anderson has never looked "excellent" against wrestlers, and has always avoided them. Those two, I repeat, ARE the only two wrestlers he has ever fought. How convenient.

No Okami is not a wrestler, the dude hasn't been to a wrestling championship in his life or trained it at all until well into MMA. His background is in Judo, which makes him similar to a BJJ specialist not a pure wrestler. A wrestling background means just that, a BACKGROUND. You grow up with it. There will always be a difference between 20 years of doing something every day and doing it for 5.

If every guy who practices shoots and sprawls for a couple of years is a wrestler then there are no non wrestlers in all of MMA! Even GSP is only so great a late wrestler because of him mixing his striking so very well and having great reflexes, I have no doubt he would lose in pure wrestling to most of those wrestlers he beat in MMA. And GSP is just the exception, not the rule. A very talented prodigy and an extremely rare exception. Otherwise you want to see what a "stylistic wrestler" looks like against a real wrestler then rewatch Okami's fight against Chael.

Yeah the last two guys Jones fought were middleweights ... guess what, one was a last minute replacement when no one else wanted the fight on 3 weeks notice. The other was forced upon him by whining fans and a money hungry WWE loving boss, not because he was at the top of the LHW division. And barring 5 secs he owned both them as expected and moved on, big deal.

Anderson on the other hand fought the likes of Leites, Cote and Lutter .. the "crem de la crem" of the MW division all "#1 contenders" lol after full camps and still looked like crap in those fights, either purposely or positionally.

Franklin was also probably the most overrated champion of all time in the UFC. Was beating people for YEARS after the Anderson loss you say? That's funny because his resume since then looks like a christmas tree, with the only little green lights coming over incredible competition like Lutter, MacDonald and geriatric Chuck and Wanderlei. But you're right, Rashad's one off decision loss followed by a win over Hendo is much worse than Franklin getting his head knocked off in minutes by Vitor and geriatric Le let alone his decision losses to the guy Rashad just beat and Forrest freakin griffin.

Wow Vitor with his ADCC Absolute division bronze and 3 sub wins is a McBlack belt, but Anderson with his 4 excuse me 3 subs + 1 pseudo sub with illegal elbows, in more fights than Vitor, and not even casting a shadow on any grappling contest mats is the amazing BJJ black belt par excellence. You know, the one "who'll always find a way to sub you even if you take him down". If you suck at sub defense. Or are a fat gassed guy. Or a guy who's already knocked out.

But all this text is useless, the Weidman fight will prove it all one way or another.

If Anderson demolishes Weidman easily, say a rd 1/2 TKO, I will gladly come in here and apologize for my misgivings about Anderson's style and give kudos to the guys who said I was wrong. Yes, even you copter, though it's certainly not going out on a limb calling an Anderson win. You can be smug all you want then, and I'll eat crow. Even with Anderson wisely catching Weidman at the worst time coming off a long layoff.

IF however Weidman beats or even pounds/challenges Silva (regardless of if Anderson pulls out a miracle hail mary at the end) then it only proves that Anderson is indeed a great but ultimately flawed and weaker fighter than Jones with a glaring hole in his game.
Yes, cool story bro. And Jones nearly had his arm taken off by a blown up middleweight on short notice who had 1 other submission win in 10 years.



I also enjoy the insinuation that Middleweight is a terribly weak division....it's funny because it's not only clearly better than Light Heavyweight...it's so much better than THREE title contenders in that division were nothing but blown up middleweights.

There is not a division in the ******* sport where guys who are fighting the P4P champion are LOSERS from a division BELOW what they were fighting. It'd literally be the equivalent of Anderson defending against Carlos Condit...it's hilarious.


Yes clearly Anderson is ducking wrestlers like Jones is ducking legitimate submission grapplers. Only Anderson has fought two of the most accomplished wrestlers in the history of the sport and Jones hasn't fought a single fighter with proven legitimate submission skills.



Because apparently, Chael Sonnens have been roaming MMA or years now and Anderson has just been a coward and avoiding them. And hear I thought Chael was distinct in his style and credentials, but apparently D1 All-Americans are just rampant in MMA....well..if you count Jake Rosholt. I guess Anderson should've fought him too?


Yes, he actually beat Okami, who would challenge for a title years later, as well as those several nice wins over ranked middleweights. And yes, Rashad, a natural Light Heavyweight, being a much older, past prime version of Dan Henderson at Light Heavyweight is much less impressive. But let's keep pretending that going up 20lbs in weight is some sort of meaningless, easy accomplishment that has no bearing on fights. Even within the regards to their weight class, Rashad has yet to show he can even beat decent ranked LHWs anymore..and Shogun flat out cant...he'd probably lose to Bader at this point...Rampage actually did.

And with that you've relegated yourself to a joke poster, and I will probably never read anything you have to post ever. But it's worth noting to people who may actually read this and go WOW VITOR won a medal at ADCC!

Yes, but ADCC was a joke back then...it didn't gain credibility until later. ADCC was literally almost exclusive done by mma guys who did some grappling...he was facing guys like Genki Sudo and Ricco Rodriguez....obviously world class grapplers......he beat Almeida who is by no means a world beater in pure BJJ, but he was also massively heavier.

Real grapplers didn't compete in ADCC back then so, no...that accomplishment means **** all....and considering Belfort was literally tapped out by Overeem and his sub wins are against the mighty Bobby Southworth, Anthony Johnson and the mightiest Joe "THe Ghetto Man" Charles.....Anderson is actually inarguably a more accomplished submission fighter than Belfort in terms of MMA. Nice troll post though, it was fun.

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