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post #21 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 05:15 PM
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These GSP comparisons are silly. Cain finishes fights, GSP doesn't. Cain is also absolutely RELENTLESS in his attack, whilst GSP is more methodical. Other than them both having great wrestling, I don't see the comparison at all.

Cain Velasquez is the wrestling version of Nick Diaz, basically.



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post #22 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReptilianSlayer View Post
These GSP comparisons are silly. Cain finishes fights, GSP doesn't. Cain is also absolutely RELENTLESS in his attack, whilst GSP is more methodical. Other than them both having great wrestling, I don't see the comparison at all.

Cain Velasquez is the wrestling version of Nick Diaz, basically.
My comparison was just a loose one. Cain and GSP have two completely different approaches. However, both have similar strengths and weaknesses. Both have excellant wrestling, both have great cardio,
both have great striking/boxing, both aren't known to have the best chins (Although I would argue that Cain has a better chin seeing that he's taken a more punishment), and both aren't known to have the enormous punching power.

I do agree however, Cain has a much higher finishing rate than GSP at this point in his career. I've never been disappointed with a Cain fight, while GSP has been too conservative for my liking.
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post #23 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 08:36 PM
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Cain has only beaten 2 people in the last few years. this doesn't leave a very large sample size for judging his skills. for all we know, he might not even be able to beat frank mir or roy nelson. without even looking at p4p, would he even beat cormier? the guys usually ranked highly have gotten there by cleaning out divisions and answering these type of questions. i can't help but think of when people though machida and shogun would be 1-2 in lhw for years.

i think that when it comes to p4p rankings, people put too much stock in belts. my understanding of p4p would take away the reach of jones. it would take away the speed advantage that machida has by being small. who would win that fight if machida was slower and jones had no reach?
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post #24 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 09:08 PM
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how many times has he defended his belt ? 2 times! I think 5 is good for now
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post #25 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 09:50 PM
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I think the main reason is the amount of fights. Yes, being undefeated is amazing, but he doens't have many fights compared to the other top guys.

GSP: 24-2 Cleaned out the entire WW division for 6 years and dominated it for about two years before the Serra loss, all to top competition.

Anderson Silva: 33-5 Did really well in other organizations with a few losses, but once he got to the UFC in 2006 he held a stranglehold on the MW division and as the champ went up to 205 pounds and demolished other fighters, one of them being an ex champ.

Jon Jones: 19-1 His only loss to Matt Hamill (and that was a BS loss, i'm not even a Jones fan, but we beat Hamill down and should have won). Then he goes and kills everyone else, and beats 5 former champions.

Jose Aldo: 23-1 Destroyed everyone in the WEC in very impressive fashion became the champ and came to the UFC and kept knocking people the hell out. Beat the former 155 pound champ (close fight) but he still won.

Renan Baro: 31-1 I'm not even a fan of his but dude beat everyone since his first loss which happened to be his first fight. Then from 2005 till now, has beat everyone he faced and became the UFC champ.

All these accomplishments from these guys out weighs what Cain has done so far in my opinion. Not saying Cain isn't a stud and won't be at the top of the list in the future, but right now, he hasn't done enough yet.


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post #26 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 12:00 AM
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great post magik. +1

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post #27 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 12:25 AM
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Fifth is crazy....

Weidman dropped down in weight and decrowned the p4p king, Cain's not fighting DC,

Johnson cleaned out one division and fought for a title in another, Cain's last five fights have been against 2 guys.

Anthony Pettis is both champion in the "deepest division" in MMA and poised to face #3 p4p fighter in the world. Cain Velasquez is fighting guys after one win.
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post #28 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 12:54 AM
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any p4p topic should begin by discussing what best means

length of win streaks, total wins, quality of opposition, manner of victory and the level of skill are all things people weight differently


my list cant even be argued well, coz i just go by who looks the best

id have anderson, barao, jones, aldo, gsp, cain


give me some parameters and i guarantee the list will change

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post #29 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 01:26 AM
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The whole meaning of pound for pound is one equation: skill divided by body weight. Thus HWs usually don't show up on it. That's the original meaning of P4P. The way it is used today is highly subjective and doesn't make any sense whatsoever so it's not a surprise that some MMA site disagrees with you.




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post #30 of 60 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiK11 View Post
I think the main reason is the amount of fights. Yes, being undefeated is amazing, but he doens't have many fights compared to the other top guys.

GSP: 24-2 Cleaned out the entire WW division for 6 years and dominated it for about two years before the Serra loss, all to top competition.

Anderson Silva: 33-5 Did really well in other organizations with a few losses, but once he got to the UFC in 2006 he held a stranglehold on the MW division and as the champ went up to 205 pounds and demolished other fighters, one of them being an ex champ.

Jon Jones: 19-1 His only loss to Matt Hamill (and that was a BS loss, i'm not even a Jones fan, but we beat Hamill down and should have won). Then he goes and kills everyone else, and beats 5 former champions.

Jose Aldo: 23-1 Destroyed everyone in the WEC in very impressive fashion became the champ and came to the UFC and kept knocking people the hell out. Beat the former 155 pound champ (close fight) but he still won.

Renan Baro: 31-1 I'm not even a fan of his but dude beat everyone since his first loss which happened to be his first fight. Then from 2005 till now, has beat everyone he faced and became the UFC champ.

All these accomplishments from these guys out weighs what Cain has done so far in my opinion. Not saying Cain isn't a stud and won't be at the top of the list in the future, but right now, he hasn't done enough yet.
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