***OFFICIAL*** Georges St-Pierre vs. Johny Hendricks Thread - Page 48 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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View Poll Results: Your prediction

Georges St-Pierre 32 62.75%
Johny Hendricks 18 35.29%
Draw 1 1.96%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2013, 07:42 PM   #471 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
Keep protesting and crying online, Jonny. That'll change things

The judges messed up, yet all I see you doing is discrediting GSP as a fighter in every thread. That's dense.
Defensive much?

Where am I discrediting him? By saying he got beat up? Saying he is a pt fighter? Like I am the first to say that? You have your panties in a bunch.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:43 PM   #472 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Defensive much?

Where am I discrediting him? By saying he got beat up? Saying he is a pt fighter? Like I am the first to say that? You have your panties in a bunch.
Well, you've been pretty clear for a long time you hate gsp. I'm not too surprised a close decision comes out in his favor and you automatically give it to the other guy. Sounds like more emotion than logic to me.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:48 PM   #473 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Defensive much?

Where am I discrediting him? By saying he got beat up? Saying he is a pt fighter? Like I am the first to say that? You have your panties in a bunch.
He's a point fighter. He has nothing for Hendricks. He has no finishing ability. He has no punching power. There's no power behind his leg kicks. The list goes on and on. Instead of sobbing like a little girl, put some of that energy into prayer and pray that Hendricks doesn't "hold back" in the rematch.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:01 PM   #474 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
I think Hendricks would be making a huge mistake if he doesn't go all out for the knockout in the first 2 rounds. If GSP is still in the fight after 2 rounds he is going to win plain and simple, he has better cardio and is a far more refined striker with just as good if not better MMA wrestling. Johnny trying to out last GSP is a big mistake if that is what he tries.
I think Hendricks realizes now what I pointed out before the fight.

I was wrong in that Johnny should have gotten the win but I really do think if he had pressed the action he would now be champion. GSP was wilting from the punches in the 2nd and if he had gone for the kill I think he would have got it. He was too worried about pacing himself though and imo it lost him the fight.
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:16 PM   #475 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
Georges St-Pierre is suspended until Jan. 1, 2014, with no contact prior to Dec. 17.

Johny Hendricks must get orthopedic clearance on his right knee or he is suspended until May 17, 2014. He faces a minimum suspension until Dec. 17, with no contact prior to Dec. 8.

The only thing keeping Hendricks MAYBE out longer then GSP is his knee. Which none of us even noticed any problems. But docs wont take chances with peoples knees. That said if the orthopedic doc clears him then he can have contact sooner then GSP.
No dispute on any of that. Point is, we don't even know who actually took more damage in the fight. We only know who LOOKS like he took more damage.

So even if that was how mma fights are scored, and it isn't, we don't know right now who took more damage.

I've won fights the judges gave to the other guy. The judges have given me fights where the other guy kicked my ass. That's the price of it getting to the judges.

Re GSP
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Originally Posted by Canadian Psycho View Post
He's a point fighter. He has nothing for Hendricks. He has no finishing ability. He has no punching power. There's no power behind his leg kicks. The list goes on and on.
Hendricks had 25 minutes to put GSP to sleep. GSP sure didn't run from him. Am I remiss in asking where the vaunted Hendricks power went? If Hendricks had done so much damage, round 5 should have been a cakewalk.

This all sounds like American football, where one team can kick the other teams ass, and then lose on a freak kickout return and a late field. So you win the 'beat-up', but lose the game. Seems to me that, if all you're writing is true, Hendricks could have solved this problem by finishing GSP in 30 seconds instead of carrying him for five rounds. Oops.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:04 AM   #476 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fighters/details/947

Statistically GSP did win, strikes/subs/takedowns beat Johny everywhere. We don't agree with it from what we saw but going by numbers which is both logical and reality he lost.
Nope, the stats dont say he won because they cant.

Positional changes dont score or effect the outcome.

Does anyone apply the actual judging criteria anymore or dose it just get manipulated by every fan how they see fit?

effective striking = damage

Thats it, end of story. Dana has said it, big john McCarthy has stated it and so does the criteria.

That means if you hit me fifteen times and I hit you five, you dont automatically win the round in MMA. Its about who the judges felt did more damage, I.E. who was more effective, me with my five or you with your fifteen.

Thats why sites like Fightmetric are a guideline but not the holy grail.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:20 AM   #477 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slapshot View Post
Nope, the stats dont say he won because they cant.

Positional changes dont score or effect the outcome.

Does anyone apply the actual judging criteria anymore or dose it just get manipulated by every fan how they see fit?

effective striking = damage

Thats it, end of story. Dana has said it, big john McCarthy has stated it and so does the criteria.

That means if you hit me fifteen times and I hit you five, you dont automatically win the round in MMA. Its about who the judges felt did more damage, me with my five or you with your fifteen.

Thats why sites like Fightmetric are a guideline but not the holy grail.
People are going by the ufc website which states Effective Striking = Number of Strikes landed.

But if you look at the real source for unified rules of MMA it states Effective Striking = Number of Strikes landed and the Significance of those strikes. Which imo means you are correct.

Some people iv seen trying to argue where these significant punches of Hendricks are and that to me is crazy because you can tell by watching the fight that when hendricks landed GSP would react while when GSP landed Hendricks barely even flinched.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:36 AM   #478 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SideWays222 View Post
People are going by the ufc website which states Effective Striking = Number of Strikes landed.

But if you look at the real source for unified rules of MMA it states Effective Striking = Number of Strikes landed and the Significance of those strikes. Which imo means you are correct.

Some people iv seen trying to argue where these significant punches of Hendricks are and that to me is crazy because you can tell by watching the fight that when hendricks landed GSP would react while when GSP landed Hendricks barely even flinched.
Ive never seen that on the UFC's site, but then I dont go there much. I still dont understand why anyone would go to the UFC's site and not the NSAC's, they enforce (well figuratively) and write the rules that UFC fighters are fighting under if the fight is in Nevada anyway.

So I didn't get my info from the UFC's site I had to plod through the NSAC's site back when it was a mess.

Then I was challenged on my statement in the past and again went back to make sure they hadn't changed the code because they do change the criteria, it was still the same.

If someone wants to attempt to correct me thats fine but anything from any other site other than the NSAC is irrelevant, that includes the unified AC rules because the NSAC publicly denounced them and chose not to be bound by unified rules.

The odd part is its not a secret, its been about damage from the start and officials have stated as much the entire time, NSAC or unified.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:25 AM   #479 (permalink)
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Judges don't deserve all of the blame in GSP-Hendricks controversy

Mike Chiappetta

FOX Sports
A corner between rounds is usually a place of organized chaos. Simultaneously, there can be a head trainer trying to bring calm to a situation that is anything but, coaches in various disciplines shouting specific instructions, a cut man trying to address bleeding or swelling, someone delivering water to the thirsty, and regulatory officials monitoring it all. Among this maelstrom is the focus of their efforts, the one attempting to process the previous five minutes and make adjustments for whatever is to come.

Saturday night had one of those kinds of moments. As Johny Hendricks took one last breath before entering the final round of his UFC welterweight championship match with Georges St-Pierre, his head coach Marc Laimon tried to rally him to the finish line.

"The belt's yours," Laimon said. "Go get it!"
Johny Hendricks and his cornermen at UFC 167

At the time, he had plenty of reason to be positive. Hendricks had clearly won the fourth round, and was either up 3-1 in rounds or tied 2-2. Either way, the fight's momentum was in his corner. As he paced back and forth before the action restarted, Hendricks looked fresh. He sang to himself, and as ref Mario Yamasaki implored them to start, Hendricks clapped his hands together and moved forward to engage St-Pierre.

As St-Pierre met him, he appeared a beaten champion. He had cuts below both of his eyes, he had swelling on the left side of his forehead, his expression was visibly tense. The fight was clearly trending in Hendricks' favor.

But minutes later, after the final scores were read, it was St-Pierre who escaped with the split-decision win168. For all of the attention that has been hoisted on the judges' decision169, little notice has been paid to the fact that Hendricks let the fifth round escape him, making such a score possible.

How did it happen? In the final five minutes, Hendricks had not only the most inactive round of the fight, but one of the most inactive full rounds of his UFC career.

During the fifth round, he threw only 21 punches total and didn't try a single takedown. Meanwhile, the battered and bruised St-Pierre threw 30 punches and tried four takedowns, successfully completing two.

In Hendricks' career, he hadn't had a full round in which he threw fewer strikes since he had lost his last bout, to Rick Story back in Dec. 2010. In fact, that was the only round in his UFC career in which he did less. Against Story, he had only thrown 13 strikes over the final five minutes, although he countered that lack of activity with five takedowns.

In nine full rounds with Mike Pierce, Josh Koscheck and Carlos Condit, and four more with St-Pierre, Hendricks had been more active. In seven full rounds with Charlie Brenneman, T.J. Grant and Ricardo Funch, he'd been more active. Hendricks had effectively had one of his worst-ever rounds at the worst possible time.

Part of that was because he was mostly in defensive mode. St-Pierre felt the urgency of what was at stake, and spent most of the round attacking the challenger. It's not that Hendricks was cruising to the finish line, but he wasn't sprinting to it, either, slowed down by a roadblock.

In the controversy over the decision, what was lost is that Hendricks could have sealed the fight then. He certainly appeared to be the fresher fighter of the two but let himself get outworked. He was effectively protecting a lead which he couldn't really be sure he had.

This isn't to absolve judges Sal D'Amato and Tony Weeks of their decisions. The key round in the scoring turned out to be the first. It was the only one of the five in which there was any official disagreement from the judges. (Glenn Trowbridge scored it for Hendricks.)


'Bigg Rigg' appeared to celebrate victory after the fifth round. It was premature.

On paper, the first round was remarkably close. Hendricks landed 27 strikes to St-Pierre's 26. Significant strikes went 19-18 to St-Pierre. Takedowns were 1-1. Yet afterward, conventional thinking was that Hendricks won the first. In fact, of the 16 media scores tallied by MMADecisions.com170, all 16 scored the fight 48-47 Hendricks, and of the 12 who submitted round-by-round scores, all 12 gave Hendricks the first round.

The difference to most was power striking. While most of St-Pierre's landed strikes were jabs or body punches, Hendricks landed eight power punches to the head to St-Pierre's one. By the end of the round, St-Pierre was already bleeding. In a sport that judges a winner and loser with eyes rather than any kind of objective scoring tally, all of that usually matters. And Hendricks certainly appeared to be the more effective striker. But still, it wasn’t an overwhelming blowout of a round for Hendricks, not enough to have him 100 percent convinced that he was up 3-1 heading into the fifth.

If the judges deserve blame for their debatable mistake in the first, Hendricks also deserves some fault for his inability to push to the final bell. When Laimon implored him to "go get the belt," he didn't do it. And in the end, giving away that round cost him just as much as the one that two judges took from him.

http://msn.foxsports.com/ufc/story/j...roversy-111813
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:30 AM   #480 (permalink)
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Fight Stats Rewind: Georges St. Pierre vs Johny Hendricks Round-By-Round Scoring Nov 18, 2013
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By Reed Kuhn, @Fightnomics17, Fightnomics.com18

Another title fight decision, and another controversy regarding the judges’ scorecards. In prior analysis I found that the close fight between Jon Jones and Alexander Gustafsson revealed somewhat inconsistent judging scores19. So today I was eager to see how the UFC 167 championship fight between Georges St-Pierre and Johny Hendricks looked on paper, and where the disagreement was on the cards that resulting in a split decision over the winner.

The chart below shows Significant Strikes Landed by round, and aligns the scoring of each of the three judges to each round.

GSP Hendricks stats20

There was actually only one round where a single judge disagreed with the others: Trowbridge scored round one for Hendricks, while D’Amato and Weeks gave St-Pierre the round. The rest of the fight the judges were consistent in their scores, alternating winners over the remaining four rounds. St-Pierre took rounds three and five on all three cards, while Hendricks was a unanimous winner in rounds two and four.

According to the chart, these scores make sense. In the unanimously scored rounds the fighter who won was indeed the more successful striker. Had I graphed “attempts” rather than landed strikes, the chart would look the same, with the more active fighter winning the exact same rounds.

The disagreement in round one corresponds to the closest round of all. Was it a coin flip that just happened to cause the judges to give the benefit of the doubt to the champion? Each fighter landed one takedown, and almost exactly the same number of significant strikes. But what else happened? According to FightMetric, St-Pierre attempted 36 significant strikes, and 48 total strikes (strikes that aren’t “significant” are jabs in the clinch or on the ground) in round one.

Meanwhile, Hendricks attempted 26 significant strikes and 37 in total. St-Pierre also had one unsuccessful submission attempt. So St-Pierre was the more active fighter in the round despite having lower overall accuracy. And there’s the trick. Judges can’t count every strike that lands, and they don’t have any access to statistics during the course of a fight. So what they’re left with is an impression of who was more active, which likely led to the award of round one to St-Pierre for two out of three judges. On the other hand, for Trowbridge to have given the round to Hendricks, it must mean that the effectiveness of his striking trumps the volume from St-Pierre. Who is right?

Judging isn’t an exact science; they are, after all, only human. Imperfections are guaranteed. But looking back at hard numbers and aligning them to how judges scored each round is, in my opinion, a valuable exercise. It allows us to isolate where disagreement occurred, and hopefully spark a conversation of how and why judges render the decisions they do. Hopefully this helps inform future scoring rules and judge training, and puts judges on the spot to explain why they disagreed over a certain round so that we can understand why their opinions differ. Maybe commissions can even endeavor to agree on which way is the “right” way to score a round in the future. But I would assume a big-time athletic commission does this kind of thing themselves, right?

http://www.mmaoddsbreaker.com/news/f...round-scoring/
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