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Old 10-30-2013, 09:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
99% of all MMA fighters have rudimentary boxing. When looked at in context, Cormiers striking is well above average.

This. Sure, he tried some daft stuff with Nelson, but in exchanges he's virtually flawless. Doesn't matter about proper boxing or proper muay thai or whatever, he is consistently out striking MMA fighters of all kinds, at HW, and makes it look easy. And he does actually get in close and EXCHANGE, unlike many modern MMA fighters.

Cormier is legit and I hope he can make LHW healthily, because he's more skilled than Velasquez IMO. They have the same base but with a different approach, Velasquez goes harder but I think Cormier is more technically sound by quite a margin.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I dont think its DC's striking that is good. I think his wrestling is so good it makes his striking seem much better then it is. I really think the ability to take people down at will just opens up striking and takes away the stand up ability of someone who is predominately a striker.

Also controlling the wrestling game takes away your opponents cardio unlike anything else IMO. Also taking away someones cardio also aids to opening up striking. I think we see this more and more now a days. Cain vs JDS is a prime example of someone who is a better pure striker being shutdown by a great wrestler who knows how to mix up take-downs with stand up. Pure wrestling is not enough by itself but the ability to mix take downs or the threat of take-downs with stand up is the most powerful tool you can have in MMA. GSP is another example of this.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by El Bresko View Post
He did not out strike Gustafsson. That was an even striking match. He couldn't take Gus down and DC is leagues ahead of him as a wrestler and he was an inch away from losing his title to Vitor by armbar. Vinny and Davis are both better BJJ guys and that's not even mentioning Drysdale who will soon be fighting in the UFC. Jones is a very well rounded fighter but the only thing he is the best at is length.



Well it doesn't really help your case that DC is undefeated and Reem has been KOed in his last two fights, does it?
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Jones did not outstrike Gustafsson. Jones stiking is not even top-5 in the division. All of Jones opponents give up some standup advantage because they want to avoid Jones wrestling.

Even Gustafsson did and despite that the striking was very even.

Put Jones in th heavyweight division where he cannot bully them with wrestling and he would have trouble with JDS and Cain and likely be knocked out. Jones footwork, hand speed, striking power, chin is ok but far from the best strikers out there. Even his boxing technique was shown in the Gustafsson fight to be less than top-5. He was outjabbed and and hit in the face many more times than Gustafsson was. Jones kicks are good though.
Jones has out struck everyone he's faced including Gus, the denial you guys exude is silly.

I cant understand the hate for Jones but its very obvious he's a top five striker when he's beat most of the top ten fighters who are coincidentally strikers and he beat them all with his stiking most with his hands.

MMA is not boxing, I dont need to be a better boxer to be a better striker.

If your bias wasn't misplaced Struve would be undefeated and the heavyweight champ. I mean all it takes is some reach right?

Saying DC has some next level ability in wrestling over Jones is again bias, dude didn't Big country stuff his td's in the second round? Jones has better TD stats than Dan against opponents with actual skill. DC has taken on very few UFC quality fighters and to his credit beat them but lets not get too hyperbolic.

The majority of Dans wins are against cans that are not even UFC quality fighters. He's surely a top wrestler but it doesn't take wrestling to stuff a wrestler that's called take down defense.

Chuck Liddell must be the best wrestler the UFC has ever seen! In his career he spent a TOTAL of under two minutes on his back.

Thats very impressive considering he fought mostly ground fighters, dont get me wrong his wrestling was good but not that good and he didn't need it to be because he was just about impossible to take down, thats TDD.

I think ppl are forgetting that Jones has hurt every fighter he's faces with his lack of power and inferior striking. Im shocked he can drop so many HQ fighters and finish them with his poor skills.

He's still just a man, nobody is impervious to damage and at HW I think DC could give him a good go. But at LHW I just dont think he can beat Jones.

Everyone talks about how bad Jones is at this or that but he goes out there and makes it a point to beat fighters where they are rumored to have an advantage over him and other than Gus its been totally out of choice but the fact remains he does it.

LOL one close fight and everyone's talking about how bad he is at his craft. I guess when you hate a fighter so badly its only human nature to reach out for every crevice you can and try to turn it into the grand canyon.

Im not saying he has no flaws but they sure as shit are not as prominent as you guys make them out to be.

Also,

People saying MMA fighters have shit boxing are misleading, MMA fighters dont use techniques that dont work in MMA /the end. You cant compare striking in boxing to striking in mma or on the street it just wont work because well its not the same.

I beat the shit out of a golden gloves boxer back when I was a younger man and had him pissing blood. He looked so bad that the next day at work he told everyone he got jumped by three guys. Then a co-worker (his roommate) that watched the fight opened his mouth and I almost got fired, regardless dude is a much better boxer than Ill ever be but you know what? I still whooped that ass... twice.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Actually seem has better wins at hw than DC

Werdum and Brock >>> roy, monson, mir
Don't agree at all.

Many people had Werdum beating Reem in that fight. He outstruck Reem anyway.

Brock with a hole in his stomach who wanted a way out? A guy who was just beat down like a little boy by Cain. Who was beat down by Carwin until Carwin's body froze? Brock sucks, especially at that stage when he wanted 1 last fight and a way out of real fighting in order to go back to Pro Wrestling. Brock took 1 shot and laid down.

Flawless victory over Roy, Barnett, Mir, and Bigfoot are better wins than a fight vs. Werdum where nothing happened and Brock Lesnar with a hole in his stomach.
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JASONJRF View Post
I dont think its DC's striking that is good. I think his wrestling is so good it makes his striking seem much better then it is. I really think the ability to take people down at will just opens up striking and takes away the stand up ability of someone who is predominately a striker.

Also controlling the wrestling game takes away your opponents cardio unlike anything else IMO. Also taking away someones cardio also aids to opening up striking. I think we see this more and more now a days. Cain vs JDS is a prime example of someone who is a better pure striker being shutdown by a great wrestler who knows how to mix up take-downs with stand up. Pure wrestling is not enough by itself but the ability to mix take downs or the threat of take-downs with stand up is the most powerful tool you can have in MMA. GSP is another example of this.
^yep. you'd think people would have started figuring that out back when Randy out kickboxed Chuck. 10 years ago.

But the detractors have a point. I mean, with 3 whole years of training the guy barely made it through the UFC's top 5 without losing a round. He better get with a top team and a top training partner before it's too late.





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Old 10-30-2013, 12:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
99% of all MMA fighters have rudimentary boxing. When looked at in context, Cormiers striking is well above average.
Yup- especially in the context of "effective".

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Old 10-30-2013, 01:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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@Slapshot
Fighting smaller guys and winning standup does not proof better striking. Jones wins mostly due to physical advantage. First fight he met someone as big as him (Gustafsson) he struggled and was losing the fight according to many professional MMA fighters.

Most of the fighters Jones beat in championship fights were natural middleweights. Jones is going to get knocked out soon whether it will be Teixeira, D.C or Gustafsson doing it I do not know.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
^yep. you'd think people would have started figuring that out back when Randy out kickboxed Chuck. 10 years ago.

But the detractors have a point. I mean, with 3 whole years of training the guy barely made it through the UFC's top 5 without losing a round. He better get with a top team and a top training partner before it's too late.
Exactly. He hasnt exactly got long left. What is he now, 42? 43??

He needs to stop pissing around with tin cans and earning a paycheck. Get out of that horrible gym with that overrated brown person. Time to get down to some serious business while he still has 5 or six months left before hes exposed by proper fighters.

Really, he just needs to retire. He's old and green. The worse combination of rubbishness on earth. He's just another Brock.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post

I get your point but I actually feel this gif shows the opposite of what you were intending, but it is the perfect example of why I am surprised he hasn't been KO'ed, or at least rocked, yet. Cormier is very predictable in the stand up, he throws when you throw knowing that you are in his range. Look at how easily Barnett, a much taller fighter, just ducks under most of his punches while DC is sitting there with his chin up and unprotected.

I'm not saying JBJ is going to KO DC or anything like that, I'm more saying someone like Gus or Lil'Nog would probably have a field day with him and his lack of defense once he is on the attack.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:52 PM   #20 (permalink)
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@Slapshot
Fighting smaller guys and winning standup does not proof better striking. Jones wins mostly due to physical advantage. First fight he met someone as big as him (Gustafsson) he struggled and was losing the fight according to many professional MMA fighters.

Most of the fighters Jones beat in championship fights were natural middleweights. Jones is going to get knocked out soon whether it will be Teixeira, D.C or Gustafsson doing it I do not know.
Again you can ignore what im saying if you chose but it doesn't make it any less factual.

If you were correct Struve would be the king at HW but he's not because it takes skill not just attributes. Hell if your unskilled, a skilled fighter can turn you physical attributes against you and beat you.

Most of the fighters he's faced are not natural middle weights, that they can drop down to MW doesn't mean that its the WC they preform best at. That notion just fits you misconception so you latch on to it.

Otherwise you would have to admit the obvious, that Jones is a better fighter than the people he's beat. If size was as important as skill then the HW division would be dominated by true heavyweights but its not dominated by HW's its chalk full of cruiser-weights because size can only do so much for a fighter.
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