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Old 06-06-2014, 11:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Joe Rogan Believes That Cutting Weight For Fights Is Cheat


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Joe Rogan talks about the art of cutting weight for athletic competition, specifically cage fighting.

ďI definitely think so. I think there might be some sort of regulations where they weigh fighters during training five or six weeks out, the way they do random drug tests. They should probably do random weigh-ins as well and try to find out whatís going on here. When you have certain guys who are cutting an insane amount of weight, maybe something should be done about that, maybe it should be prevented.

Iím a huge proponent of health and safety when it comes to the most dangerous sport in the world, and one of the most dangerous aspects of this dangerous sport is weight cutting. Weíve had guys die from weight cutting ó both in college wrestling and in MMA in Brazil. It happens. Guys can die from weight cutting. Iíve seen guys that looked like they were going to die. I saw Travis Lutter when he weighed in for Anderson Silva and missed the weight. When he came back Ö Iíve never seen a person look worse in my life than Travis Lutter did then. He was shuffling. He couldnít walk so he was sliding his feet across the ground. His lips were chapped, his body was completely dehydrated and his cheeks were sunken into his face, and he was going to fight the baddest motherfóer on earth in less than 24 hours.

Thatís insane. The guy looks like heís on deathís door. What if he got the flu right there and then? What if right then, when heís feeling like só and his immune system is depleted, somebody coughs on him? He gets some really contagious bug and boom, he dies that night. Thatís not outside of the realm of possibility. When youíre engaging in something thatís already dangerous, those other dangers really should be mitigated, and I think that doing that on your own is intelligent. But if fighters donít do it on their own, athletic commissions should monitor it.

Weight cutting is dangerous, thereís a reason they weigh in the day before the fight; it gives them a chance to rehydrate. Itís crazy. Letís call it what it is. Itís kind of cheating, but itís cheating that everybody does. Youíre allowing someone to pretend theyíre 155 pounds. Motherfóer, youíre not 155 pounds! You look at Gleison Tibau and itís like, ĎDude, you are not a 155-pound fighter. Youíre just not. I understand that you can get onto that scale and it can show 155 pounds, but that is for the briefest window possible.í As soon as guys get off the scale, they suck on Pedialyte, they drink coconut water and do whatever they can to get fluids back into their system, and theyíre fóing dying.

I just think that bringing your body to a state where itís almost dying just a day before youíre going to fight is fóing crazy. I like it when guys get within 5 pounds or so. Iíve talked to guys who are really intelligent about their cuts, and they get within 5 pounds. Hereís a perfect example: Thiago Alves. All throughout his career heís had problems with weight cuts. He missed the cut for the Matt Hughes fight and came in looking fóing enormous when he fought Hughes, and a lot of people thought that was a real advantage. I mean, he looked like a goddamn gorilla! Like someone came in and shaved a gorilla. But if you saw him in his last fight, a really entertaining fight against Seth Baczynski, he was on weight the day before the fight. The day before the fight he was 170 pounds and he didnít have to cut any weight.

He looked a little smaller as far as his musculature goes, but he looked great. He didnít look weak in any way, shape or form. His technique was fantastic, his gas was great and he came off a two-year layoff and fought a war with a very tough Seth Baczynski. He had a really entertaining fight and he had the endurance. He was healthy coming into that fight because he didnít have to deplete himself and starve himself and all of that só.

Itís one of those situations where everybody has to cheat, because everybody else is cheating.

I just think that approach is a better approach. I really wish there could be some sort of an agreement with fighters where itís just, ĎGoddammit, what the fó do you weigh? You weigh 180 pounds right now? Is that what you weigh when youíre fit? Then you should fight at 180 pounds.í This making weight thing drives me crazy. I understand that itís important for championship fights, to define how big the fighters are so we have people competing against people who are the same size, but I think it should stop. I think itís a dishonorable part of the sport, and I know thatís a very controversial stance to take, and I know that a lot of people may say that Iím ignorant for saying that. ĎWho are you? Youíre the commentator. Youíre the guy who is the supposed expert who is explaining MMA in the No. 1 organization in the world, and you think that weight cutting is cheating?í Yeah, I do. I think itís cheating that everybody does. Itís one of those situations where everybody has to cheat, because everybody else is cheating.

I love fighting. I fóing love it. I watch everything. I watch Bellator, RFA, Glory, Lion Fight, fights on YouTube and every UFC card. I watch the ones Iím commentating and the ones Iím not commentating. Weíve even recently started doing this thing where Bryan Callen, Brendan Schaub, my friend Aubrey Marcus and I watched the fights and did a simulcast. While we were watching the fights from Cleveland we were broadcasting live on YouTube, watching the fights and having fun doing what we called a fight companion podcast. Iím a huge fight fan. I watched Floyd Mayweather fight Maidana, I just love watching fights. Itís one of my passions.

So for a guy like me to say that I think weight cutting is just cheating that everybody agrees to, I understand that itís a very controversial thing for me to say, and I understand that a lot of people are going to get angry at it. But I really think that itís something that we should look at, and we should look at it, and we should look at it from that perspective. I walk around and I weigh about 195 pounds. If I told someone that I really weigh 170 pounds, and theyíre like, ĎGood, I weigh 170 pounds too, Iíll meet you here at this time and letís grapple or fight or whatever.í If I really do weigh 195 pounds, Iím going to have a 25-pound weight advantage over that person. So if I trick them into thinking that I weigh 170, and starve and dehydrate myself to prove it, and then when we actually meet Iím healthy and back up to 195 pounds, isnít that cheating? Isnít that lying? Thatís what people are doing.

When people weigh in at 155 pounds and then balloon up to 175 pounds totally shredded and ripped with giant, full muscles Ö Itís crazy! What kind of game are we playing? Why are we playing that game? Well weíre playing that game because everybody is playing it. The weight cutting game is part of the whole MMA game now. Itís deeply entwined and integrated into the sport that you cannot compete against the best in the world unless youíre willing to starve yourself and deplete yourself, and I think itís fóed.

I think itís contrary to the very spirit of martial arts. The very spirit of elite level martial arts should be that you train as hard as you can, you watch your nutrition, you do not take performance-enhancing drugs that give you any sort of unfair advantage and you want to compete against someone who is your size. Thatís what it should be all about. You donít want to go in there and bully someone who is littler than you. You donít want to go in there and hit someone who is 30 pounds lighter than you that you have some sort of ridiculous advantage over. Thatís not in the spirit of elite-level martial arts. Elite martial arts should be people competing against people who are the same size as them. Sure there will be some variations. There will be a guy who is 170 pounds and is built like Hector Lombard, and another guy who is 170 pounds and is kind of doughy and soft and has a lot of body fat. Well, the Hector Lombard guy is always going to be stronger and faster. There are going to be variables, but at least we can minimize those variables if people agree to fight at whatever weight they actually are at.

If you want to fight at 170 pounds, figure out a way to get your body healthily down to 170 pounds. There are optimum weight classes for people. There are people who are carrying around too much body fat, and they would perform at a higher level if they could drop that body fat and get more fit. There are a lot of people who carry unnecessary muscle mass, which looks good if youíre powerlifting or bodybuilding, but the reality of MMA is a lot of that stuff just sort of gets in the way. Thereís a point of diminishing returns, where too much musculature is just going to rob you of your performance, especially in the third, fourth and fifth rounds. Itís a huge factor when you see a really muscular guy.

Weíve commented on it on the broadcast a lot, sometimes to the point where muscular guys like Tyron Woodley have taken umbrage with it and get pissed off at me. Itís not that Iím not a Tyron Woodley fan, but if you look at Tyron Woodley and then at the other guys that are 170 pounds, and itís clear that one of these things is not like the others. One guy has a significantly larger amount of muscle than other guys. It works great for him in certain ways, but in other ways you pay the price for that.

I think that if someone wants to compete at 170 pounds, they should fóing weigh 170 pounds. If someone wants to compete at 185 pounds, that should be what you weigh, and if you want to compete at that weight class, figure out how to get your body down to 185 pounds in a healthy way.Ē
This is long, but glad Joe Rogan is talking about it. I'm not a fan of huge weight cuts, but I wouldn't call it cheating. I also wouldn't mind seeing them do what he recommends, and not allow some guys to cut crazy amount of weight and put most of it back on.

What are your thoughts on this?
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It is currently well within the rules, so it is in no way cheating. Kind of off the mark on this one Joe.
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Old 06-06-2014, 11:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by joshua7789 View Post
It is currently well within the rules, so it is in no way cheating. Kind of off the mark on this one Joe.
I agreed with everything he said except that it's cheating. But TRT was legal before and I felt it was cheating, even though they were within the rules. So I see where he's coming from. If everyone is doing it, I need to do it to compete.

But he made a lot of good points for abolishing huge weight cuts, for instance, someone like Anthony Johnson cutting from 220 or more down to 170.

I'm against huge cuts like those.

The tricky part will be where to draw the line if they try to implement such a system.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:02 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MagiK11 View Post
I agreed with everything he said except that it's cheating. But TRT was legal before and I felt it was cheating, even though they were within the rules. So I see where he's coming from. If everyone is doing it, I need to do it to compete.

But he made a lot of good points for abolishing huge weight cuts, for instance, someone like Anthony Johnson cutting from 220 or more down to 170.

I'm against huge cuts like those.

The tricky part will be where to draw the line if they try to implement such a system.
I mostly agree with the TRT deal. It was definitely a back door to steroid use. Unfortunately, it is up to the athletic commission to decide what is and what is not cheating. If they are going to allow people to take advantage of certain loopholes, that is on them. However, anything allowed within the rules is not cheating.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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It is cheating, trying to get a size advantage over your opponent negates the reason why weight classes exist. Although now that almost everyone does it, everyone nearly ends up around the same weight so they are starving themselves and making themselves tired for no reason because their opponent's are doing the same thing.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by joshua7789 View Post
I mostly agree with the TRT deal. It was definitely a back door to steroid use. Unfortunately, it is up to the athletic commission to decide what is and what is not cheating. If they are going to allow people to take advantage of certain loopholes, that is on them. However, anything allowed within the rules is not cheating.
I agree with that completely, but don't you agree cutting over 30 pounds is ridiculous? As we all know and as Joe mentioned, it isn't healthy. I'm all for having fighters weighing in close to their mark a few weeks before the fight. It will keep things safer, and maybe to a certain extent level the playing field. It wouldn't surprise me if they implemented that strategy most of the current fighters will still fight in their current weight classes, because they'll simply do what the next guy is doing, but it won't be as risky to their health.

But I think if they went this route, some guys like the old Rumble and Tibau would probably fight a weight class above.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If nobody cut weight then they would still be fighting mostly the same people. I think it would be much better without the weight cutting, you would still be fighting people your own size and probably be more healthy along the way and in the long run. I mean what's the difference if lets say Rumble vs Belfort happens at 205 or 230... Same fighters, same fight. And neither has to do a stupid weight cut, probably have a little more energy/cardio to.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MagiK11 View Post
I agree with that completely, but don't you agree cutting over 30 pounds is ridiculous? As we all know and as Joe mentioned, it isn't healthy. I'm all for having fighters weighing in close to their mark a few weeks before the fight. It will keep things safer, and maybe to a certain extent level the playing field. It wouldn't surprise me if they implemented that strategy most of the current fighters will still fight in their current weight classes, because they'll simply do what the next guy is doing, but it won't be as risky to their health.

But I think if they went this route, some guys like the old Rumble and Tibau would probably fight a weight class above.
I agree with all points except for the cheating. It is a great way to destroy your body. Dehydration puts your brain at a much greater risk.
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:55 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Until someone dies weight cutting (cough...John Lineker...cough) the system is still going to be in place but yes they should change it around

Heavyweight - 250-300
Light Heavy-weight 225-250
Cruiserweight - 200-224
Middleweight - 185-199
Welterweight - 175-185
Lightweight - 160-174
Featherweight - 140-160
Bantamweight - 125-140
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Old 06-07-2014, 12:59 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by John8204 View Post
Until someone dies weight cutting (cough...John Lineker...cough) the system is still going to be in place but yes they should change it around

Heavyweight - 250-300
Light Heavy-weight 225-250
Cruiserweight - 200-224
Middleweight - 185-199
Welterweight - 175-185
Lightweight - 160-174
Featherweight - 140-160
Bantamweight - 125-140
I think that as the talent pool continues to grow, the weight classes will probably start to look something like this.
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