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View Poll Results: Should grabbing your own shorts be illegal?
Yes, it should be illegal just like grabbing your opponents shorts 36 56.25%
No, its fine. 28 43.75%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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post #21 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 08:50 PM
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What do you mean there can't be a double standard. There's plenty of double standards in MMA. You get points for a takedown but you don't get points for getting it back up to your feet. Your allowed to use the cage to press your opponent up against it but you can't grab the cage to get out of the bad position. Who's to tell you you can't grab a part of your own body to prevent ONE kind of submission. He shouldn't have been in the position in the first place, but at the same time GSP could have moved to a better position where Kos wasn't able to grab his own shorts. If the fighters went in their naked would there be any controversy if he grabbed his own thigh to prevent it?

And yea it would be a ***got move to depants the other fighter and you would get a point taken away, cuz it's an illegal move. If it was legal don't you think that would be a perfect way to escape a takedown or submission? By pulling his shorts down. If it was legal no matter how ***goty it may be I am sure there would be a few guys utilizing it. You're in there to win the fight, not get the other guy in a position where you could POTENTIALLY win the fight. If Kos wanted to risk ripping his pants or whatever, then that should be fine. They're his shorts. Not anyone else's. I guarantee he isn't the only fighter to do that. There's no way nobody else thought of doing that at some other point in time over the last 10 years. People are pointing it out to make Kos look like more of a douche than he already is, and to make it seem like GSP got jipped out of a kimura. Maybe GSP should have gotten out of half guard if he really wanted that kimura.
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post #22 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 08:56 PM
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I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree because I see everything exactly the opposite from you.


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post #23 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 09:14 PM
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i think it is part of the environment so you should be able to use it...i also thing holding the cage should be legal...its there..you should be able to use it....i think making grabing your own shorts illigal would be stupid

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post #24 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WouldLuv2FightU
What do you mean there can't be a double standard. There's plenty of double standards in MMA. You get points for a takedown but you don't get points for getting it back up to your feet. Your allowed to use the cage to press your opponent up against it but you can't grab the cage to get out of the bad position. Who's to tell you you can't grab a part of your own body to prevent ONE kind of submission. He shouldn't have been in the position in the first place, but at the same time GSP could have moved to a better position where Kos wasn't able to grab his own shorts. If the fighters went in their naked would there be any controversy if he grabbed his own thigh to prevent it?

And yea it would be a ***got move to depants the other fighter and you would get a point taken away, cuz it's an illegal move. If it was legal don't you think that would be a perfect way to escape a takedown or submission? By pulling his shorts down. If it was legal no matter how ***goty it may be I am sure there would be a few guys utilizing it. You're in there to win the fight, not get the other guy in a position where you could POTENTIALLY win the fight. If Kos wanted to risk ripping his pants or whatever, then that should be fine. They're his shorts. Not anyone else's. I guarantee he isn't the only fighter to do that. There's no way nobody else thought of doing that at some other point in time over the last 10 years. People are pointing it out to make Kos look like more of a douche than he already is, and to make it seem like GSP got jipped out of a kimura. Maybe GSP should have gotten out of half guard if he really wanted that kimura.
Just want to point out that you do get points for stuffing a takedown.

Also, since it's one of your main arguments, shorts are not part of your body ?

There could possibly also have other submissions with your own shorts! A triangle hold, with your leg behind his neck, you take your shorts and wrap it around his neck..blood choke.

Also, you can use your own short as a leverage point to reverse/sweep your opponent.

And if grabbing your opponent's shorts is illegal mainly for decency purpose(i dont want to see Zulu's ass.. and it did happen), which is not, then i dont see how loosing your own shorts is more decent than taking your opponent's shorts away.


I think it should be illegal, but at the same time, it's not really important is it ?

Bring Knees to the head, now THAT'S important!

Bring back knees strikes on grounded opponents.. Give me good arguments for not having them for crying out loud.

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post #25 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 09:43 PM
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I didn't mean to imply the ONLY reason was due to decency, but if you are gonna grab your opponents shorts to defend something, I'm sure most of the time that the shorts would end up coming down. I don't agree that you can use your own shorts to sweep either, I don't see how that's possible. What's the difference between grabbing the back of your thigh and grabbing your shorts for leverage when sweeping? You're not gonna lose your own shorts by defending a kimura either, otherwise that would have happened the other night.
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post #26 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 10:18 PM
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I just think that grabbing on to your shorts slows down the action in the submission game so I am not really for it there is other ways to defend a submission so yeah I am against it.



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post #27 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisty69
The counterargument about grabbing your opponents shorts is a valid one. It could be that you can grab your opponents shorts but it is illegal to pull them down. it seems like it sure as hell would aid you in picking up your opponent for a slam if you can simply grab his shorts.

Also, a fighter shouldn't let his opponent get ahold of his arm to put him in a kimura. How many other times have you seen a fighter grab his own shorts to prevent a kimura? This is a first that I can remember; especially seeing as how this is the first time I've heard anyone question the legality of it. It seems like plenty of MMA fighters, all of them in fact, prevent a fighter from putting him in a Kimura by preventing the bad position in the first place, muscleing his way out of it, or contorting his arm out of it like Rich Franklin did against Okami.

There can't be a double standard. If a fighters shorts are something he can use to his advantage, then they are also something that his opponent can use to his dissadvantage.

Bye the way, use your noggin. The pulling the shorts down move you keep bringing up is completely retarded. I just don't imagine any fighter doing that. It would make him look like a ***got, and would also cause him to lose a point.
VERY well said! Repped. I dont see how anyone can say shorts are part of your body. So if I have strings at the end of my short legs can I use them to choke out an opponent because they are PART OF MY BODY? I think of shorts as a foreign object and you shouldnt be able to use your own, or your opponents to your advantage. Just like Davisty said there are techniques for getting out of kimuras and other holds, not grabbing whatever you can and holding on for dear life.



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post #28 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 10:22 PM
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They should be made to fight naked. What a stupid poll...
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post #29 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 10:25 PM
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This has nothing to do with decency, not at all, you generaly tend you pull up or outwards when avoiding a sub, like Kos did.

Using your shorts to avoid a sub is like using outside assistance. So if using your shorts to avoid a sub is ok, then why dont people wear belts and just hang on to those all day.

You are using an advantage against your opponant. Plus shorts are not apart of your body, they are your apparel. So goes with gloves, your not allowed to hold those, especially your opponants because it creates a disadvantage. Your shorts are a foreign object that are being used to assist you in the fight.

PS: haha will do
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post #30 of 50 (permalink) Old 08-27-2007, 10:27 PM
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You're not allowed to wear strings or belts, that's why people don't use them to choke other guys out. You're allowed to wear shorts, and since you are required to, I would say that it is figuratively a part of your body. Guys grab their own gloves all the time, they have to most of the time, they are pretty much covering your entire hand. Of course they grab their own gloves.

I agree with markdahl they should just fight naked. lol
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