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Stephen Thompson Advocates Smart Sparring: ‘Once You Lose That Chin, You Can’t Get It

5K views 79 replies 20 participants last post by  kantowrestler 
#1 ·
Very intelligent words from Thompson. Chin deterioration is a real thing.

Johny Hendricks was never given a stationary target against Stephen Thompson during their brief encounter at UFC Fight Night in Las Vegas this past Saturday night.

“Wonderboy,” meanwhile, had little trouble finding the mark with his versatile, karate-based arsenal as he completely overwhelmed Hendricks en route to a surprisingly easy first-round technical knockout victory. At the post-fight press conference, a perplexed Hendricks longed for the days when he and Robbie Lawler would throw caution to the wind and trade blows in the pocket.

“Robbie is sort of the way that I like to fight,” Hendricks said. “You’re gonna bite down on the mouthpiece, you’re gonna throw, and you’re gonna throw some more, and you’re gonna throw some more...As soon as I felt like I landed something he [Thompson] was like, ‘Screw that, I’m back out.’ If he plays that game [against Lawler] he could do that.”

Of course, the pair of memorable Hendricks-Lawler welterweight title tilts took place all the way back in the Dark Ages of 2014, but the man who ensured “Bigg Rigg” would not be getting back to another championship bout in the near future embodies a different mindset. Thompson didn’t take offense to what could have been perceived as a backhanded compliment.

“I didn’t take them disrespectfully. You’ve got to be stupid to actually stand there and trade blows with somebody as powerful as those guys,” Thompson said during a recent appearance on the Sherdog Radio Network’s “Beatdown” show. “Who likes to get hit? Those guys seem like they love to get hit.

“I want to have my head and my mind sharp after my fighting career. To go out there and bang with somebody like that is just too much of a risk. That’s just not my style. That’s not what I like to do. I love the point game and being able to hit you without getting hit back. Just to see you break from that and frustrate you, that’s my game.”

It’s a style that has paid off for Thompson, who at six straight victories boasts the longest active winning streak in the welterweight division. The South Carolinian has gradually risen to prominence after a loss to Matt Brown in his sophomore Octagon outing slowed the Lyoto Machida karateka comparisons.

While it seems as though Thompson is an emerging prospect, he turns 33 on Thursday, which explains why he has been so adamant in calling for a title shot following the signature triumph of his professional career. However, that request is not because Thompson feels that Father Time is gaining on him. In fact, “Wonderboy” feels relatively young, something that he credits to a lifetime of smart sparring and fighting.

“I’m gonna do [MMA] as long as my body’s gonna let me. I’ve had a few knee surgeries, but my knees are feeling great and each camp I’m getting better and better. I’m just improving,” he said. “As of right now, it’s feeling great. I don’t feel 33; I feel like I’m 21. I think it’s just a mindset, to be honest with you. I train smart. I’ve got good guys to spar with, guys that are gonna push you but are also not going to try something stupid out there to injure you.”

Thompson cannot relate to the prevalent philosophy of some camps, where consistent full-contact sparring fosters a kill-or-be-killed attitude in practice.

“That’s a lot of these gyms where they go out there and try to beat the crap out of each other. I’ve been to some gyms where they’re wearing the UFC MMA gloves going all out knocking each other out, and that’s just ridiculous,” he said. “It’s why a lot of these guys are young and they don’t have any chins anymore. They’re career is gone because they’ve beaten the crap out of each other. You cannot condition the brain.”

Thompson hasn’t been knocked out in 13 professional MMA bouts, and in eight UFC appearances, has never absorbed more significant strikes than his opponent. The heady approach to training was instilled in “Wonderboy” long before his first cagefighting foray. Under the guidance of his father, Ray Thompson, at Team Upstate Karate, erring on the side of caution has always been the norm, even as the younger Thompson compiled a 57-0 kickboxing ledger.

“It’s something that we’ve always done in our gym. We’ve always trained smart. My dad’s been training kickboxers since as long as long as I can remember -- and world champions, really good guys... Whenever you spar, you want to push each other. You can hit hard to the body but keep it light to the head. Once you lose that jaw, that chin, it’s almost impossible to get that back,” he said. “You can’t get that back. That’s something that’s kind of stuck with us until now. “

Those that aren’t on board with that philosophy are quickly shown the door.

“ Some people listen and some people don’t. Those guys that don’t, they’re not welcome in the gym. We don’t want people getting hurt. We don’t want to be that gym where you feel like you have to fend for your life every time you step on that mat,” Thompson said. “...You’ve got guys coming in late in the game, maybe they were the man in another sport, they come in and they feel like they have something to prove every time they step out on the mat. That’s not what being a martial artist is all about.

“It’s definitely worked so far. All our fighters have moved on and nobody has left our gym with any head trauma. If you want to keep fighting, that’s what you have to do. “
Read more at http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/St...ou-Cant-Get-It-Back-99993#x03dI5s70jP2W120.99
http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Stephen-Thompson-Advocates-Smart-Sparring-Once-You-Lose-That-Chin-You-Cant-Get-It-Back-99993
 
#3 ·
In 5 years this will be the norm.

One interesting thing though is that they have recently discovered in rugby that taking big shots to the chest can also cause the brain to rattle. I'm not sure it true for shots to the ribs, or abs, buts its interesting that hits to certain parts of the torso cause brain trauma.
 
#9 ·
If your chin deteriorates, its not your chin its your brain thats damaged.
Thanks for enlightening everybody on that...

and honestly, if two people agree to knock the shit out of each other with MMA gloves, why not let them? People always want to control what other people are doing, just stick to your own business and set your own rules, people always blame gyms for high injury rates and heavy sparring... i think individuals need to shoulder much more of the blame.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I've come across of a lot of these guys. Most of the time they are new to the sport and dont know what they are doing. Usually give them the "hey we're not trying to kill each other, just practice your technique, im not going to hit you hard." Sometimes that clicks for them. If it doesn't I usually knock em' one good time and tell them to stop. That has never failed.

The other situation is when you have a good, trained fighter that just doesn't get it. I've seen gyms split because of this issue. Some guys just have a chip on their shoulder and they feel like even when they spar, they have to win. They don't understand that you are TRAINING and there is no winner or loser in the gym. Simply put, I wont train with guys like that.

About the gloves... Can't agree there. For any MMA fighter it is very important to train with MMA gloves. I mean I do not know how you could prepare for a fight without training with them. They make extra padded ones that cover all your knuckles too. And just because you are using lighter gloves does not mean that you have to hit harder. You just adjust the power you throw your punches with. I don't feel like i need to go into the intricacies of why it's important to use these as it is fairly obviously (hello parrying with a boxing glove vs your hands and blocking with a boxing glove vs ur hands!!)

Also, I'm glad Stephen has publicly said this. I feel like their are a lot of gyms and fans that have the philosophy that MMA training has to be brutal because of guys like shogun and other videos of raw sparring footage. It does not have to be that way.
 
#21 ·
I seriously wonder how old school boxers like James Toney and Manny Pacquiao survived and managed to have such long careers. As far as I know, old school rules are everyone spars, everyone tries to murder each other in sparring.

A lot of boxing gyms still do that. There are clips on youtube from Floyd Mayweather's doghouse gym where they go hard for 10-12 rounds trying to kill each other for nothing but bragging rights.

Ken Shamrock and Lion's Den were known for training in a similar way and for awhile it was something like an established standard in the early days of MMA.

The concept of light sparring is a bit new within the grand scheme of things. I wonder if old school boxers had trouble with brain injuries and concussions the way MMA fighters do now. Its so weird to see guys like TJ Grant, Martin Kampmann and Chris Holdsworth have issues and be out of it when there are guys like James Toney who have probably absorbed a significantly higher amount of punishment over the years.
 
#33 ·
It's not sparring once people try to start knocking heads, thats called fighting. The very definition of sparring is throw light punches, so when guys are throwing haymakers, it's not sparring any more.

The problem is with the competitive nature of fighters. No one wants to be on the losing end of sparring sessions so things can often turn competitive and more aggressive.

From watching the Ultimate Fighter with Conor, he seems to favour technical sparring, which is non or light contact which teaches the fighters how to throw and block sequences. This clearly the safest way to spar but I'm not sure how it teaches fighters to deal with pressure and the unknown.
 
#22 ·
Well... James Toney sure does have a lot of brain damage. But "bragging rights" is a pretty cool thing to have, some people are not actually in this for the money... just the glory, the small amount of that they feel by beating someone up in sparring makes them happy.

But he gained a shit load of sparring reflex... which is what someone i know just called it.
 
#23 ·
Its still bizarre as hell to me for James Toney to still be fighting at near to 50 years old, despite him and his sparring partners probably trying to murder each other in training for the last 3+ decades.

Then you look at Martin Kampmann, TJ Grant, Kryztof Sozynski and Chris Holdsworth (cue all the other names I can't remember right now) and all of them are 20-30 something years old and having issues with concussions despite them probably going easier in sparring and not suffering nearly as many hard blows to the head. Some of them haven't been training in MMA for 10 years much less boxing for 30 years like James Toney.

Maybe its the weight cutting and dehydration in MMA that makes the difference?

That's something I would like to see someone who is an expert focus on.
 
#25 ·
I think it's probably that the athletic commissions and the UFC want them to be healthy. Because of that they are on these very LONG medical suspensions. They don't want another Muhammed Ali, or Gary Goodrige or Chris Benoit (yes he got ALOT of concussions in pro wrestling) to happen (not the shooting part I mean the brain damage part).
 
#29 ·
“Robbie is sort of the way that I like to fight,” Hendricks said. “You’re gonna bite down on the mouthpiece, you’re gonna throw, and you’re gonna throw some more, and you’re gonna throw some more...As soon as I felt like I landed something he [Thompson] was like, ‘Screw that, I’m back out.’ If he plays that game [against Lawler] he could do that.”

Just out of curiosity, when was it you landed something Johny? I don't remember him landing a single shot other then a few very short uppercuts when he had him against the cage briefly and those weren't "bite down on your mouthpiece" blows. Just pathetic when guys pull this Rampage like nonsense of "he isn't REALLY fighting" after they get worked.
 
#40 ·
I've a degree in psychology and studied neuropsych in depth. Simple fact; getting punched in the head with force enough to cause the brain to contact the skull decreases your cognitive abilities in everything.

Gym wars will make you a worse fighter guaranteed as you are literally getting slower and less intelligent with every punch...

The idea that getting punched makes you a better fighter is simply erroneous. Repetition of movements, muscle memory, knowledge of body mechanics, understanding of physics distance and timing, opponent strategy and defensive strategies will make you a better fighter. Hard sparring leads to brain damage, early retirement, impaired judgement and in many cases extreme mental illness.

Yeah you have to get hit a few times to become aware what it's like, but beyond that it's pretty much a huge mistake. Look at dudes like Shogun, tough for a few years, now he's a shadow of his former self.
 
#50 ·
Fighters are already selling there health and safety for money... This is what the fight game entails.

The idea that getting punched makes you a better fighter is simply erroneous. Repetition of movements, muscle memory, knowledge of body mechanics, understanding of physics distance and timing, opponent strategy and defensive strategies will make you a better fighter. Hard sparring leads to brain damage, early retirement, impaired judgement and in many cases extreme mental illness.
Its not about getting punched, its about learning how to react and read a dangerous opponent.

"Repetition of movements, muscle memory, knowledge of body mechanics, understanding of physics distance and timing, opponent strategy and defensive strategies will make you a better fighter"

How do you learn all of this without training it? Distance, timing, muscle memory, knowledge (and perception) of body mechanics cannot be learned in a fukin book, and training them under in a false, softer environment will give you a wonky reading and creates a false sense of security. There is also sense of calm you gain from knowing that you can deal with what they will dish out, very important for conserving

I'm not saying only spar hard either, that is pointless, softer, slower sparring can be good for learning distance, working on the technique of your strikes.

I feel like fighters perception of what constitutes hard sparring is a hell of a lot different than a fans perception, i am sure people like Thompson are at least mixing in some more dangerous sparring sessions.

But there is a lack of hard sparring, this shows up when you see that most MMA fighters all rely on big movements when trying to avoid punches... everything has to be this big step, or ear muff style blocks, none of the smaller, confident movements that you see top boxers use... the little movements in the hips to create that slight movement of the head to slip straight shots. When up close, most boxers could fight blind folded, almost just feeling there was through the exchanges.
 
#59 ·
I always get annoyed watching TUF and seeing someone say "I fight so my family can have a better life".

Yeah, cause I'm sure your wife and kids love you disappearing for several months, collecting small paycheques sporadically in an inconsistent contract where you could potentially be risking both your mental health and your entire life. Much better than just getting a job on a building site :laugh:

People fight because that's what they love to do. It comes with it's fair share of risks, but there are fighters who knew long ago that they will never become UFC champion who continue to fight regardless. Obviously the money is a big part of it considering that they want to provide for their family and if MMA is their career, they have to make sure they take enough home that everyone can be comfortable, but the important factor is these guys go out there and fight because that's what they enjoy doing.

Not the same for boxing. I've seen a few journeymen who look like they absolutely hate boxing but a half decent chin and defence sees them collect a fortune.
 
#60 ·
I always get annoyed watching TUF and seeing someone say "I fight so my family can have a better life".

Yeah, cause I'm sure your wife and kids love you disappearing for several months, collecting small paycheques sporadically in an inconsistent contract where you could potentially be risking both your mental health and your entire life. Much better than just getting a job on a building site :laugh:

People fight because that's what they love to do. It comes with it's fair share of risks, but there are fighters who knew long ago that they will never become UFC champion who continue to fight regardless. Obviously the money is a big part of it considering that they want to provide for their family and if MMA is their career, they have to make sure they take enough home that everyone can be comfortable, but the important factor is these guys go out there and fight because that's what they enjoy doing.

Not the same for boxing. I've seen a few journeymen who look like they absolutely hate boxing but a half decent chin and defence sees them collect a fortune.
I hear u on this. Fighters with families are extremely selfish human beings. Most will never make good money doing it, then by the time they are 40 there body will be in so much pain they can't do any real physical work. Later on in life when they are older they will most likely have CTE, dementia , or some other serious brain complications. That's being a great Father and Husband...GTFO:thumbsdown:
 
#64 ·
They know they lack the skills to get to the top. It's an unwritten rule amongst certain journeyman, you lose and make the other fighter look good. If you can do that, then you can make a decent living from it.
 
#66 ·
No they don't. A few probably do but not those who have records like 6-64.

When a promoter rings them and tells them they a set up a fight with some up and coming kid the journeyman knows what his job is. At no point will the promoter say take a dive in round x or anything like that. It is just an unwritten rule that the guy is supposed to lose.

If he goes out there and wins, he'll likely never be booked by that promoter again - or even any promoter.

The role of the journeyman fighter is widely misunderstood. These men lose for a living – but on the inside of the circuit, they're figures of respect, not shame. For journeymen, losing is an art – and a lucrative one at that.
A found a nice article on the art of the journeyman - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/11067736/Journeymen-the-boxers-who-choose-to-lose.html
 
#68 ·
Its not really about winning or losing to them, more about staying injury/cut and knockout free, which inevitably results in a decision loss. Trying to win is too big of a risk, not only in getting hurt, but also like Spite said, if they start winning to much they will struggle to get fights.

I mean, do you think a solid pro like Max Maxwell is trying to win these days? He was a solid pro at one point, now he loses to nobodies (though i see he has won a few lately) No way does he lose all of them while trying his best .
 
#69 ·
I don't know him but if he was actually trained and was actually a "solid pro" then that's different. After they do as you said, fully protecting themselves, they'll try to land their shots and maybe, if taking zero risks, edge the fight. Remember most of them are doing just 4 round fights so once they feel like their defence can keep them absolutely protected, then we can see a few of them trying a little bit.

The thing is, it's not a case of "when they start winning". These are untrained and relatively unskilled guys fighting well touted and trained prospects so even if they threw caution to the wing, 99.9% of them have no chance of winning anyways.
 
#76 ·
^Not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about MMA journeymen fighters? Cause they don't exist. In MMA, it's too dangerous to not care about the result. Paul Buentello is actually a really solid fighter in his time. I haven't watched too many Jeff Monson fights but if I'm right he has some good wins. The thing in MMA can be that some guys are willing to get up out of bed and go fight. They might not train at the best gym or study their opponent, but they are going in there for one thing and one thing only and that's to win the fight.
 
#77 ·
Yeah, i think people need to realize the difference between journeymen, bad fighters (some may call them bums) and the various levels of gate keepers. Jeff Monson has been a hell of a gatekeeper in the later part of his career. If you have certain holes in your game, you won't get by him. He beat Roy Nelson in 2009, in Nelson's last fight before joining up with the UFC for Tuf.
 
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