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Old 09-24-2007, 11:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Why did Rua gas? (non troll anwers only)

I kinda feel bad that Shogun gassed in like the 2nd round, but I have some theoris and also would like to hear your theories as well (exept those which involves overratedness).

1 We can't question that Shogun is good as he beat Overeem, Rampage and Arona in a beatdowny fashion.

2 We also can't question his OWGP gas tank that held for Little Nog who is pretty big (at least tall).

3 We can't question that Shogun in his fight with Forrest gassed horribly.

So, what conclusions can we make? My conclusion is he's started doing to omuch strength training in the gym (it is well known i think that pure gym trained guys can gas pretty bad when wrestling or doing some real life oriented work) and sacraficed some of the time he uses for cardio training. "If I'm strong my cardio won't be as crucial" he probably thought. He also said on countdown to 76 that he wanted to show his newly developed strength. "I work with weights primarly to focus an the cardio but I have also worked on my strength which i want to show against Griffin" So what happens when he fights with a bit more strength and too little cardio (perhaps he has been cheating with it as well) but still with the same pace against a man whose cardio, strength and heart are as big as can be his strength increase doesn't change anything.

But a little better cardio could have won him the fight, griffin was tired as hell as well but he didn't show it to Shogun and probably not to himself either during the fight. Shogun perhaps took it lightly or something like that as well I dunno it's all theories above, no facts.

Also the "train with eachother like bjj champs" brazilian style is starting to get old compared to "train scientificly like Randy" style. That's what Quinton did that Shogun didn't.

Perhaps Shogun needs to get some Randy for himself toget the power back.

EDIT: spelling errors
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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People are bending over backwards to explain why he gassed when the answer to me seems very simple.

He didn't train as hard as Forrest did, and as such, couldn't keep up with the pace Forrest set.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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There's all kinds of possible theories. He didn't train as much as he should, he didn't train right, Forrest's size and pace merely overwhelmed him, he may have used illegal substances in Pride, he may have sustained some injury in training, the quality of his camp may have dropped with the incidents at Chute Boxe - Who knows?

Originally I was so astounded by his lack of cardio that I assumed he must have taken illegal substances during his stay in Pride. But, after reviewing the fight a few times and really thinking about it, I've changed my mind. I think two major things came into play. One, I don't think he trained his cardio properly, nor do I think he ever really trained properly for the UFC. As mentioned, he needs to take a more technical approach to his workouts as opposed to just hitting the mats and sparring and considering himself in shape.

I think the second major influential factor was Forrest's size. They were saying a few months before the fight that Forrest was walking around at about 250 lbs. That means that Forrest weighed as much as Gonzaga before cutting down to make weight, which is MUCH larger than I think Shogun could ever get (Aside from being a complete pudge ball). Even though Forrest cut down for the fight, I think he was still physically used to being a "big guy," and similar to the Ramirez fight he probably was in the Octagon at around 225. Shogun looked like he didn't have to cut very much weight at all, and they looked like they were from two entirely different weight classes. Anyone who trains understands how tough and draining fighting a much larger guy can be, both in reach and weight.

I'd like to see Shogun bulk up and increase his cardio so that he doesn't have as much of a disadvantage versus a larger opponent. The Griffin/Rua fight reminded me a lot of the Evans/Ortiz fight in that one guy was just freaking bigger than the other and that heavily influenced the fight.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Why does any fighter gas.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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because of constant punching, moving around the cage or ring thats why they gas.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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forrest is big. no conspiracies here.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I heard Shogun got married 2 weeks ago. Does anybody know if its true?
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm still not sure why Shogun is considered to have great cardio. Even against Nog it looked to me like he gassed, but so did Nog. Against Nakamura he got tired from putting a beatdown on Nak.

People need to distinguish between a guy who doesn't quit coming forward, and a guy who has great cardio. Shogun doesn't have great cardio, but even when his tank is low he keeps coming forward (he even did this against Forrest, as feeble as it was) which gives him the illusion of having great cardio to some people.

Even look at his record, he's gone deep into a fight (past 10 minutes) 4 times, 2 of which were his legitimate losses, and the other 2 were against Nog and Nak, both fights in which I thought he gassed, but perservered anyways.

So I still don't understand the people who are in shock over him gassing in the fight. I'm probably going to take some heat from this as I have like 8 posts, but it's simple, he gassed because he has bad cardio.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It was not only Shogun who gassed. Forrest was hardly skipping in the daiseys come the end of round 2, let alone round 3 when he could hardley lift his arms at the end to finish Shogun. Also if the reports about Shogun are correct and he has suffered some internal bleeding in his head could this not have affected his stamina?

Hopefully we will see Shogun again because I'm sure he has alot to offer the UFC.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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he got married like 2-3 weeks before the fight (to a beautiful brazilian model might I add). He was probably too busy taggin that.
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