1- Could make a fighter to think twice before using banned substances behind the back of his team, because he being caught would demonstrate he was not only betraying his own camp, but also causing them actual damage beyond loss of reputation, like monetary loss, in fines, for example, or even suspension as well.
2- It would give a heads up on the consequences to the teams that are not only aware, but encouraging or sponsoring their athletes to cheat, so they would think twice before trying to break the rules, as the consequences could be severe.
I also believe that the creation of a set of rules making camps co-responsible for their fighters acts in regards of the use of illegal substances would create a better way to take care of their athletes and even control them, by, for example, making their own private tests to make sure in advance their fighters are clean.
I believe that would be a good way to get more people involved in the proccess of cleaning the sport, instead of expecting only the athletes should take measures to avoid taking the wrong route all by themselves.
Oh, goddamnit, these fighters are adults, and their camps are only responsible for their training, they're not their legal guardians.
People and organizations get punished for what you can prove they did not for something someone they happen to be in business with did. For example, WADA has evidence that the Russian Athletic federation systematically helped athletes hide their doping practices which is why the federation is being punished.
But unless you can prove that someone was complicit in an athlete's doping, you can't punish them.
You cannot punish by association in any legit justice system in the world, it's just barbaric regardless of whether it deters a crime. Simply because you will always end up punishing the innocent along with the guilty. It's like proposing punishing families of criminals for their crimes etc.
Like @Sports_Nerd said, unless you can prove complicity, it is not a crime to be associated with someone who does wrong.
But I do feel the big gyms that host multiple UFC fighters should *choose* to have a strict no PED policy. It reflects poorly on them if they dont. I would have thought a gym owner wouldn't want that shit anywhere near his fighters. But it seems to me they dont really give a shit; its up to the fighter and if they get caught its their problem - which is fair enough to a point. Its the give-a-shit attitude that bothers me.
It would be a happy day when I see gyms regularly dropping fighters that have been busted, as opposed to putting an arm around them and feeding the idea that its all unfair. At the end of the day, these dudes came into your gym juiced up, and put beatings on your other fighters. How can any gym owner be happy with that?
No. And I don't know how anyone could legally punish a camp even if one wanted to.
The only way I could see camps/gyms start to get held accountable is when MMA fighters get it together by forming a union. Their union can be like NFLPA, MLBPA, & many other athlete unions who use certification to approve who can do what with it's athletes & sanctions to keep bad 'actors' away.
I am generally not a fan of unions, but with the sale of the UFC, I think it's time for the athletes to get it together. Unfortunately, right now, the wrong guys have been leading the charge.
Thanks to everybody who offered their counter points to back their opinions on this matter, after all, I have asked for thoughts, not a simply "yes" or "no". :thumbsup:
They shouldn't be punished that's not realistic the AC's would be warped up in investigations and litigation for forever, it would probably take the focus off the fighters too.
But if Im the head of the testing agency and a member of a gym popped dirty, id test every member of the gym who has a license.
Indeed. I have seen in more than one occasion forum posters pointing fingers at specific camps when more than one athlete pops dirty and eventually using the same type of drug. Understandable.
The idea is not to automatically accuse camps of being behind or supporting the cheating act, but rather to involve camps more in the problematic. Straight punishing them was just a raw idea, of course, but it would be important to make more people pressuring the potential cheater and if camps would suffer any type of consequence, doesn't need to be a drastic one, I believe they would be the first front to keep a close eye on their fighters.
This recent USADA act of searching for snitches is also pointing to the need of spreading the radar scope to catch more and more cheats.
1- Could make a fighter to think twice before using banned substances behind the back of his team, because he being caught would demonstrate he was not only betraying his own camp, but also causing them actual damage beyond loss of reputation, like monetary loss, in fines, for example, or even suspension as well.
Now if mere MMA enthusiasts can have clues on who might or not be on PEDs, imagine professional athletes, coachs, nutritionists etc., who are dealing with fighters everyday.
I bet they know all the signs better than any fan and they also can tell the difference in the way these guys are sparring and pushing their limits in the gym in comparison to others.
Now, either camps are in there together, or at least they know and are not saying a word. I find very difficult to believe camps are legitimaly surprised when they hear one of their athletes popped dirty.
I don't know how a policy like that could be enforced because the athletic commission only registers the fighters. They maybe also register the corner men. The jurisdiction ends with people that are registered.
Sure. You are right. This is the way things are today. The point is how to bring more people who are far from being innocent to share this responsibility with the athlete. It should require many adjustments and conversation time, but in the end, if you fine a camp who provided a cheating athlete, that could change the way camps would take care of their fighters in this regard. It could lead to a change in culture.
Yeah but you are talking about changing procedures for who knows how many athletic commissions. Also remember that not even every athletic commission works the same. Another thing why don't other professional sports work that way, like why doesn't a whole team get fined if an NFL player tests positive?
Any intended change must start somewhere. If we think nobody did it yet to stop trying new things, there's no evolution.
Beside, UFC or interested Promotions could be brought together in this, so it wouldn't be up to commissions only. But in regard of commissions procedures, we know there's a tendency to others adjusting to new policies even overseas. Remember TRT? As soon as Nevada banned TRT for everyone, CABMMA banned it too, and Vitor had to quit the therapy for good.
If it's out in the open like it was at **** Couture gym that I brought up years ago and was scoffed at, then yes, (I was laughed out the thread when I said this yeeaaars back) but you can't always tell if someone is on something. Not all PEDs bulk you up, many of them enhance strength and recovery, which are the more popular ones in MMA, so you could do it in secret.
People who cheat aren't usually the considerate type, so I don't think they'd worry about the innocent fighters they'd effect in their gym by their decisions. If they're cheating with PEDs, they know they're bringing that advantage to pound another man's face with great damage capabilities, so not really the considerate type, imo.
Too many innocents would be effected and every MMA camp would shut down because everyone MMA camp it seems, even Nate "you're all on Steroids" Diaz's inner circle friends get popped.
I'm willing to give those guys the benefit of the doubt there though I do agree with Hunt that the UFC's lack on Jones and Lesnar is a bit suspect.
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