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UFC The Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) is a U.S.-based mixed martial arts organization, recognized as the largest MMA promotion in the world. The UFC is headquartered in Las Vegas, Nevada and is owned and operated by Zuffa, LLC. This promotion is responsible for solidifying the sport's postion in the history-books. UFC is currently undergoing a remarkable surge in popularity, along with greater mainstream media coverage. UFC programming can now be seen on Spike TV in the United States, as well as in 35 other countries worldwide.

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Old 10-05-2007, 10:49 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone here is in a position to comment on how effective lie detector tests are, just leave it to the professionals.
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Old 10-05-2007, 10:53 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I don't think anyone here is in a position to comment on how effective lie detector tests are, just leave it to the professionals.
soon as they get some professionals to deal with this, I will gladly "leave it to them".
I still think he roided.....we will see.
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Old 10-05-2007, 11:20 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Sherk should surely have a right to an appeal.

Medical tests produced flawed results frequently. This is partly because a lot of tests don't produce totally unambiguous results (i.e. the outcome still requires some interpretation) or because of error in the handling of samples, processing of data, and so on.

In the UK you occasionally read about thousands of women who have been misdiagnosed in respect of breast cancer or cervical cancer due to errors in the testing service. Another relevant example comes from studies of expert errors: some statisticians once gave the test results of a few hundred children to doctors, and about half were recommended for tonsilectomies; the staisticians gave the test results of the half who were not recommended for tonsilectomies to a second set of doctors, and the second set recommended a further half of these for tonsilectomies; they took the remaining half, handed these over to a third set, and they recommended another 50% for tonsilectomy... and so on. Evidently, experts disagree about the interpretation of medical data.

So the point is that neither medical science, medical experts or laboratory services can be expected to be 100% reliable.

So while the first test does make it probable that he was on steroids, let's not totally rule out the possibility that he is clean.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:02 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Do you just trawl through the forums looking for grammatical errors or terms used in the wrong context to create random unrelated arguements and then jump in with both feet to show everybody how clever you think you are? You must have been a wizard for the high school debate team.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:12 PM   #65 (permalink)
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haha i cant believe i argued about what someone else meant by saying "legal case" for an hour lol

anyway the thing that strikes me about sherk is this... he ALWAYs looked huge, back to when he first started and so im not sure why he would have taken roids now, whats the point??? all he would need to do would be keep his muscles up not build more bulk...

so even though ya he looks like he did take roids to get as huge as he is in the first place why take them now? it seems odd to me...
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:12 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Biofeedback - Stress Relief - Wild Divine Healing Rhythms

That's the computer game my therapist (court ordered) used to make me play to help with anxiety and isolation issues and shit. It's basically a way to just sit around and practice your lie detector tests til you get good enough to beat em.
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Old 10-06-2007, 02:12 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Lie detecter test... nothing but marketing tool...

Geeze...

The fact is, Sherk lost alot of credibility when he was 'accused' of taking roids...
Just the accusation alone is a marketing nitemare.

This is just a tool for damage control used by Sherk's marketing and management team, thats it.

No one is going to jail, but he might lose his marketability if everytime he steps in the ring people think hes using.

The procedures for the appeal is set in stone already, this is not under debate... he is not the first athlete to file for appeal, and he wont be the last... a verdict will be handed out on that day.

This is just a way for him save face and hope he is found innocent by his FANS... thats what will make or break his career.
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Old 10-06-2007, 02:47 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Yeah it's there or there abouts. They can be fooled but it takes a lot of training, or one cold, emotionless dude.

There surely must be something wrong with CroCop. He just hasn't looked like his normal self since joining the UFC, & now he's went AWOL.

USATODAY.com - Telling the truth about lie detectors

According to this article control-question tests were 93-96% accurate. It's always difficult to say though because the test has no answer key. They just monitor you and look for changes. Everyone reacts differently so it's all interpretation.

I've read journals where they say the people most likely to beat lie detector tests are sociopaths. Brainscans show they don't really feel anything while they are committing violent acts. So you're right...the cold, emotionless dudes will beat the test.

As for Cro Cop I think it's two fold. His fighting style and strengths are better suited for the ring. It's smaller; he can cut guys off easier. Stand-ups or repositioning are also more common in the ring.

He's also not training with the best. Look at what all the fighters having success have been doing the last two years. Rampage moved up to Big Bear, GSP is down in Greg Jackson's camp, everyone at Extreme Couture will benefit from Silva being there. CC is rolling with his buddies in Croatia.

He is starting to figure it out. Bought a cage and flew Lister in to roll with for the Kongo fight. That isn't enough. He needs to get his a$$ to a camp where he'll be pushed.
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Old 10-06-2007, 02:57 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Let’s look at the evidence here, shall we? Sherk was drug tested, and the test came back not only producing a positive, but also showing an extreme amount of steroids in his system, as proven by samples A and B. On the other hand, we see Sherk frantically trying to save himself from the scorn of the public eye, claiming that he never used performance-enhancing drugs. However, looking at his body would strongly suggest that his statement is erroneous, at least to some extent. So therefore he decides to take a polygraph test as a way to somehow prove his innocence. Well, Sean, I’ve taken a few lie detector tests in my day – enough to know that they can be easily passed with a little insight and practice. To pass all anyone really has to do is bite his tongue during a control question, start to breath heavily, bring up a fearful situation in one’s head, or better yet, do all of those!

This seems like nothing more than a situation where a guy is doing everything to save his a$$. Unfortunatly, it's too late. Sean has been exposed as a cheater, and the longer he drags this out, the longer people will associate steriods with Sean "THE MUSCLE" Sherk.
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Old 10-06-2007, 03:25 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Let’s look at the evidence here, shall we? Sherk was drug tested, and the test came back not only producing a positive, but also showing an extreme amount of steroids in his system, as proven by samples A and B. On the other hand, we see Sherk frantically trying to save himself from the scorn of the public eye, claiming that he never used performance-enhancing drugs. However, looking at his body would strongly suggest that his statement is erroneous, at least to some extent. So therefore he decides to take a polygraph test as a way to somehow prove his innocence. Well, Sean, I’ve taken a few lie detector tests in my day – enough to know that they can be easily passed with a little insight and practice. To pass all anyone really has to do is bite his tongue during a control question, start to breath heavily, bring up a fearful situation in one’s head, or better yet, do all of those!
Let's look at the evidence you've presented honestly, though. On the one hand, you have a test which has become increasingly controversial* over the years, that doesn't even directly test for the substance it's used to 'detect' being used as indisputable evidence that the subject is 'guilty.' On the other hand, a test that is controversial in its own right, is being rejected (by many here) on that basis as evidence of innocence. Does that make sense?

Your second piece of evidence is Sherk's abnormally muscular body. If this is a valid indicator, then how do we explain Royce Gracie, Hermes Franca, Josh Barnett, Stephan Bonnar, etc? None of them possess the stereotypical juicer body, yet all of them admitted to steroid use.

Dealing specifically with Sherk, we have the issue of causality. Sherk has always had that body (as long as he's been in the public eye). He's passed drug tests on more than one occasion. What changed? Did he simply miss-time his cycle? Did he make a change to his diet/training regimin? Were his supplements contaminated? Is his body changing naturally as he ages? The evidence doesn't answer these questions.

Another piece of evidence that is important is comparing the test levels of Gracie and Phil Baroni to that of Sherk. The other two tested as much as 8x times higher than Sherk, which raises questions. Did Sherk just barely miss-time his cycle or were his relatively slight elevated levels caused by something less potent than steroids? I don't know.

Your next piece of evidence is the fact that Sherk elected to take a lie detector test. You've used the act of pursuing proof of one's own innocence as implication of guilt. It's quite possible that Sherk's motivations for taking this test were transparent and honest. Knowing which is the case requires an insight into the situation that very few people would have. I don't have that insight.

I have no idea if Sherk is innocent or not, and I don't claim to. The fact is, if this were a criminal trial (guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, not a preponderence of the evidence), Sherk would either be found innocent or in the case of a really biased jury, there would be a mistrial. The direct evidence of guilt (which he may well be) simply isn't there.


*The test detects nandrolone metabolite levels, substances that occur naturally in the body. It was only a few years ago (the test had already been used for years) that scientists discovered that nandrolone metabolites occur naturally in the body and that using nandrolone based products only increases those levels. In other words, it seems about as conclusive as a lie detector test. All it actually proves is that the subject has elevated nandrolone metabolite levels, which could happen in many different ways, including eating some types of meat. Claiming someone is taking steroids based on that test alone is an assumption.
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