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I don't agree with the affect on the career part. There are countless examples of steroid users in MMA and out whose careers were left more than in tact by the news. Yes, it's negative publicity, but the real source of career problems seems to be with the commissions, not public opinion. Just because someone doesn't like you doesn't mean they won't pay to see you. Just because someone won't pay to see you doesn't mean you don't have the skills to keep competing.
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Originally Posted by Joe Rogan
That longing to return to the retarded past can only be born of some collective, subconscious, internal desire to try to turn back the clock on humanity and halt our obvious progression towards the inevitable zombie apocalypse of 2012.
Love/Hate... samething... but when you lose fans, you lose marketability, you lose your draw...
IMHO, he should have done the appeal and kept his mouth shut.
If he is found innocent, great.
If guilty, then he can claim it was an inadvertent positive due to supplements and he will be more vigilant in the future in this respect.
done.
why go this route with the lie detector... just a mistake... wait for the ruling, dont stir the pot, deal with outcome after the fact.
Sounds like he is already bracing for the ruling against him by this action. What if the board rules in his favor? then what was the point of this exercize... is this a critique of the process? or the governing body? Does he feel there is a conspiracy against him?
Someone on his marketing management team gave him bad advice to take this test at this time... he could have easily had done this test AFTER the judgement should it not go his way.
Im not sure on this part. Steroids really don't seem to any long term affect on someones career. Most fans seem to forget Sylvia took steroids and he still has a fan.
Im not sure on this part. Steroids really don't seem to any long term affect on someones career. Most fans seem to forget Sylvia took steroids and he still has a fan.
thats exacty it...
why escalate something which is not unprecidented...
fans are quick to forgive, people are quick to forget...
thats if you just diffuse the situation, but instead his management team has decided to make it even bigger with this *STUNT*... and thats exactly what it is... a stunt.
I dont think he would lose any fans if he just shut his yap and said it was an honest supplement mistake and it wont happen again. period. end of story.
Love/Hate... samething... but when you lose fans, you lose marketability, you lose your draw...
Yes, you said that before. I'm asking for evidence that that's the case, or at least an explanation for all the athletes whose careers survived steroid scandals unscathed.
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IMHO, he should have done the appeal and kept his mouth shut.
If he is found innocent, great.
If guilty, then he can claim it was an inadvertent positive due to supplements and he will be more vigilant in the future in this respect.
done.
why go this route with the lie detector... just a mistake... wait for the ruling, dont stir the pot, deal with outcome after the fact.
Sounds like he is already bracing for the ruling against him by this action. What if the board rules in his favor? then what was the point of this exercize... is this a critique of the process? or the governing body? Does he feel there is a conspiracy against him?
Someone on his marketing management team gave him bad advice to take this test at this time... he could have easily had done this test AFTER the judgement should it not go his way.
I think you're missing the point of the test. The test is going to be presented to the commission as part of his appeal. It's not a PR stunt. The appeals are essentially a no win situation, unless the commission finds contamination in the supplements the athlete hands over. Having an expert speak on your behalf saying that you didn't knowingly violate the rules is one of the few things Sherk will have going for him in his appeal.
What fans think of him is not Sherk's top priority right now, that would be keeping his lightweight championship.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rogan
That longing to return to the retarded past can only be born of some collective, subconscious, internal desire to try to turn back the clock on humanity and halt our obvious progression towards the inevitable zombie apocalypse of 2012.
The appeals are essentially a no win situation, unless the commission finds contamination in the supplements the athlete hands over.
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are you saying he is innocent because he did not know?
even if we accept the lie detector 'evidence' as fact, all that it proves is that he was an unknowing/unwilling participant...
but since when has ignorance been a valid reason?
I think that Sherk is missing the point.
He should be disputing the methods used to determine steroid use.
The commission doesnt care if he is lying.
They care about the results of the tests.
He needs to provide evidence to showing the tests are invalid.
The lie detector test does NOT provide evidence towards this end, rather it serves to sway public opinion of him... and has nothing to do with the commissions inquiry.
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Originally Posted by jasvll
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Having an expert speak on your behalf saying that you didn't knowingly violate the rules is one of the few things Sherk will have going for him in his appeal.
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wouldnt that mean its ok to take roids if you dont know about it?
then all that trainers would have to do is dope em up their fighters without their knowledge so that later on if they get caught the fighters would have culpable deniability
... simply being ignorant of the goings on does not make it ok.
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Last edited by attention : 10-06-2007 at 06:06 PM.
are you saying he is innocent because he did not know?
I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying the final punishment handed out by the commission is going to have a lot to do with whether or not they think Sherk knowingly or unknowingly violated the rules.
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I think that Sherk is missing the point.
He should be disputing the methods used to determine steroid use.
They may be doing that.
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The commission doesnt care if he is lying.
They care about the results of the tests.
You don't know that.
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He needs to provide evidence to showing the tests are invalid.
I'm sure they will be providing whatever evidence they can.
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The lie detector test does NOT provide evidence towards this end, rather it serves to sway public opinion of him... and has nothing to do with the commissions inquiry.
Again, you don't know that.
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wouldnt that mean its ok to take roids if you dont know about it?
Again, I'm not saying that. I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between manslaughter and murder and Sherk's team is trying to show that however his levels got to where they are, Sherk did not do it knowingly. Just like the difference between manslaughter and murder can be a lifetime in prison, the difference between ignorance and intent can be Sherk's title belt.
As for your hypothetical about cheating coaches, commission rulings are on a case by case basis. They don't set legal precedents. Whatever they decide in Sherk's case, they can decide the opposite in the next case. It all comes down to what they think of the individual, which is why it's a probably a good move on Sherk's part to show evidence of good faith.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Rogan
That longing to return to the retarded past can only be born of some collective, subconscious, internal desire to try to turn back the clock on humanity and halt our obvious progression towards the inevitable zombie apocalypse of 2012.
I'm saying the final punishment handed out by the commission is going to have a lot to do with whether or not they think Sherk knowingly or unknowingly violated the rules.
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I'm simply pointing out that there is a difference between manslaughter and murder and Sherk's team is trying to show that however his levels got to where they are, Sherk did not do it knowingly. Just like the difference between manslaughter and murder can be a lifetime in prison, the difference between ignorance and intent can be Sherk's title belt.
As for your hypothetical about cheating coaches, commission rulings are on a case by case basis. They don't set legal precedents. Whatever they decide in Sherk's case, they can decide the opposite in the next case. It all comes down to what they think of the individual, which is why it's a probably a good move on Sherk's part to show evidence of good faith.
That would make a lot of sense if he chose a single defense...
1-the tests are wrong
2-if I fail to prove (1), then I did not use roids knowingly so please consider this in your ruling.
If he cant prove (1), then what does it matter if he took them knowingly or not... the fact is, its a banned substance and could have potentially affected his performance during the bout.
If they show leniency, and dont ban + strip him of his title then they open the door for others to plea the exact same rational... 'gosh sir, I didnt know that was roids, I thought it was some green tea extract'
You are right though, I dont know anything about the goings on inside the commission inquiry.
and I could be talking outta my arse... but I dont see how this lie detector 'proves' anything...
...just my humble opinion, no evidence... you are entitled to disagree
That longing to return to the retarded past can only be born of some collective, subconscious, internal desire to try to turn back the clock on humanity and halt our obvious progression towards the inevitable zombie apocalypse of 2012.
Sherk passes lie detector test about steroids
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